Source
r/WorldOfWarships•
DoerteEU

[Re: Jingles] Why truly WG still won't care - And why we're making it worse

Guide

Like many of you, I just saw Jingles' latest video. In case you haven't and you're interested in WoWS' politics, you really should watch his new video

It starts off with what's the worst part of all the stuff WG has done over the years: The shift towards ever more aggressive monetisation! The normalisation of gambling, lootboxes, microtransactions. Paying for everything. Gameplay is all but a beautiful shell for what is basically a casino in disguise. Marketed at children aged 7+. This is shameful! Shame on you WarGambling!

But what truly clicked wirh me was how WE are actually to blame for this. And we're making it worse. With each ship we buy. Or like Jingles put it, with each ship you buy: That particular stream of revenue from you has now closed for WG. If you buy 10 Premiums, you're now 10 Premiums less interesting for WG as a customer. If you buy 60, that's 60 Premiums less interesting and so on.

And though they wouldn't mind our wallets stayed open, they're not after the seasoned "I have almost everything I want in WiWS"-player anyway. WG is after the new, fresh and hungry players. And the whales ofc. But none of the inbetween are that interesting to them. And that's almost anyone of us in here.

And now you see why that sort of management decision led them to cooking up a product which can be sold to you repeatedly. Sth you can not "sit on" in satisfaction for "owning" it... Lootoxes. Temp currencies!

The solution is obvious. WarGaming owes its name to WarGames. And there you have it: The only winning move is not to play

Posted Aug 19, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

277119
MyCodeNameIsBryan•

I doubt that! I was awarded a nice looking emblem for surpassing 150 ships! I'll likely get another one too once I surpass 150 more!!\s

74
disc0mbobulated•

WG: don’t you wish there was something you could do to make the next 150 go by faster?

26
Zenpie_All I got was this lousy flair•

£89.98 please! 😀

16
dodus007•

No thanks

7
GU-7•

WG: How about LOOT BOXES!!!

2
golem501•

I thought the winning move is to spam low levels and focus newbies to scare them off... seal club to the max!

34
bratisla_boy•

for every noob of the enemy team you scare, you carry one on your team. So that doesn't work.

32
RazerHailFleet of Fog•

Damn you with your logic.

22
IamRule34Bring Back Closed Beta•

Shit, maybe we need Kitakami back and at t4 so everyone can relive the Beta days of just getting annihilated by your own teammates torpedos from 10km behind you.

8
nostrademons•

Maybe this is why WG took out TKing as a game mechanic. If you get hit by an ally's torpedo you just shrug it off and they turn pink.

5
ChampionofTrees•

They don't even turn pink until they start really trying. I believe it's something like 40 hits with any armament except secondaries.

1
Badger_BSA•

I made it all the way to Tier 5 in destroyers. I fired a full spread of torps at an enemy cruiser. Didn’t see my teammate coming around the corner of an island. I obliterated him. I felt so bad. I apologized in chat but he was still very unhappy. I was pink for a while. Ahhh...the memories. Proud to say that I have never sent WG a dime.

2
700KMF•

Hey, only potatoes torp teammates. I can proudly say that I didn't torp greens with Kitakami even being noob who just joined test at the end of testing.

0
nostrademons•

Being carried isn't that much fun. If you do zero damage, just sail around a bit, all the enemy ships die, and then the Victory screen comes up, that's a pretty unsatisfying game.

2
Dt2_0•

Just everyone queue up in St. Louis cause it's a tank of a Cruiser and can outgun almost anything at T3 and most of T4. Then when a Newbie spawns in a Wickes or whatever let them come and then focus them to pieces.

1
nostrademons•

I love my Clemson. I'll sit in smoke and plink away at the St Louis, then if they get too close send a couple torps their way.

Kinda sucks if I'm the only one left alive on my team, but usually I'm screwed then anyway.

1
hammertime850•

Div up and still net -3 every game lol

1
Dark_MagusClubbed Seal•

Even if they get a "win" they're still not going to be having fun if they get quickly killed by sealclubbers every battle.

1
Phaedryn•

And...the seal just goes and buys a T8 premium.

That sound you hear is WGing laughing to the bank.

2
hellcat_uk•

WG won't mind that.

"Looks like you're struggling, would you like to progress to the next level? Level up boosters feature in our new random bundles available in the premium shop."

1
Dt2_0•

Too bad Newbies are cornered off for their first so many matches with other newbies before playing with veterans. Something like 100 matches or something.

1
Shadow703793Imperial Japanese Navy•

Or it will incentivize those people to jump straight in to T8s with Premium ships (which is exactly what Wargaming wants). The winning move is to stop playing and drive the numbers down.

1
LegionEx_Marc•

That could heavily backfire, since a new person getting trashed in low tier might blame the ships.

So they will buy a high level premium, because obviously with a stronger ship they can show their true potential.

1
veni_vedi_veni•

Except then the big brained ones buy premiums thinking they only suck because they don't have the 'best' ships.

0
Shadow703793Imperial Japanese Navy•

You know that's exactly what some people are going to do. Even if only 10% of the players do that, Wargaming makes profit.

1
dasoberirishmanSeal•

I actually felt ashamed to have a "Collector" flag on some of my ships. Dismounted them. I mean, after going from Premium to F2P, removing payment details on my account, and changing any plans I had to purchase any ships or items with real money. Oh, and playing less.

34
skullcowboy60Howdy fellow not bots!•

There is likely a spreadsheet that delineates when a current customer is past their 'freshness date' based on how much of X and Y they have purchased.

29
FirmConsideration442•

Also based on how long they have played WITHOUT making purchases.

I'm pretty sure WarGambling knows I intend to be free2play forever...

...and the promotions and free crate results I receive reflect that assessment.

28
Mq1hunter•

True... But this is almost every game now. Keep the cash moving. Even civ6 is now even has pay to get more content... Since the phone game trend micro transactions is the new normal. It is only by choice to go to McDonald's instead ooo wait.

24
SkyfatherTwitch•

Civ has had dlc for years what are you talking about?

13
Mq1hunter•

It is now a monthly fee instead of waiting till the dlc goes on sale. I haven't seen or heard of getting the new stuff any other way, granted I might be wrong.

2†
bobith5•

I've never heard of subscription services for Civ 6 before, are you referring to the season pass by chance?

That's just a traditional season pass where you announce what DLCs you're planning on releasing over a specified period of time and offer the opportunity to essentially preorder them all in one bundle at a discount. It's a pretty legitimate business practice for games with huge lifetime development cycles.

13
yellowcedarCruiser•

And a ton of shit in the season pass comes free, if I’m not wrong.

So much content has been added to Civ VI. Imagine expecting to get all that for free and comparing it to what War Gaming has done to WoWs lol.

The guy you’re replying to acts like since he paid for the base game he should be receiving years of work for free from the company.

7
rarzWhiskey Tango Foxtrot•

Well, none of that is a surprise - not for this situation or any other game that lives off of one-time sales (ie. without a subscription model). That WG doesn't particularly care and isn't likely to change the way they monetize shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

If you want to get rid of the lootboxes, there's really only one possible solution: get them banned by law.

15
[deleted]•

No, I will not transfer the blame for predatory corporate fuckbags onto the people they prey upon.

I will certainly not put the blame on the children who they are preying upon with their gambling games.

12
Phaedryn•

You do realize that none of this would occur if the player base didn't open their wallet at the drop of a hat, right? This entire situation, industry wide, exist because the players support it.

So yes, it is the players fault. Those companies are playing to the audience. Had players NOT been willing to bend over and take it in the ass for some pixels we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

4
[deleted]•

Whales exist.

Whales will always exist.

This does not mean that you get to excuse the dirtbag actions of a dirtbag company run by dirtbag people and shift the blame for the dirtbags to the whole playerbase just because whales exist.

I want to add that this sounds like how abusers talk about the people they abuse. "Well, they take it, so that's what they deserve." I don't think that's very good logic to apply to anything, even video games.

1
Phaedryn•

I'm not a fan of passing the buck. Nor is blame absolute, there is enough to go around. Are game companies taking advantage of players willingness to blindly pay out for what ever absurd monetization schemes these companies come up with? Absolutely. Does that diminish the blame on the player base that allows it? Not one bit. You are not a victim when you have the absolute power to change the situation and choose not to. Especially when talking about a video game. Each one of us has the absolute power to walk away at any time. This isn't real life, where an abuse victim is stuck in a situation not of their own making with no obvious, or simple, way out. It's a video game, entertainment. If you don't like it, simple stop playing it. Mewling about, saying it's unfair, it's pointless and absurd. You are doing it to yourself. Stop...walk away. It's stupidly easy, just do not log in again. It literally only requires an inaction on your part, not even something you have to go out of your way to do. The exact opposite, you have to actively go out of your way for it to continue.

1
DoerteEUOP🥔🥔Protato🥔🥔 - "Player-Rework" soon•

This was never about blame. It's about whatever we can do in this grindhouse. And the answer is: Noting. the more we play, the worse it gets (for us).

-2†
[deleted]•

YOU:

But what truly clicked wirh me was how WE are actually to blame for this.

ALSO YOU:

This was never about blame.

7
DoerteEUOP🥔🥔Protato🥔🥔 - "Player-Rework" soon•

I did and do put blame on us, yes. But again, tat ain't what this is about. But about the realisation and its consequences. So pls, mind taking your non-issue somehwere elese?

-5
[deleted]•

Oh, I didn't realize that your comments are only for people who already agree with you.

My mistake, sir.

4
Grim1316•

Well, I kinda played this from time to time, however, it seems I am now done with WG all together. No spending and no playing, it seems Blizzard will have company in my "no longer playing or paying folder"

8
Some_dude_passing_by•

Well said and lets hope the game won’t die from this. Also having a blast playing stellaris

6
Badger_BSA•

Let’s hope an alternative ship game comes out and it is good. Then WG can go pound sand.

4
DarkbandagI hate playing Russian ships•

The funny thing is that most CCs have made videos or streamed them opening Santa Crates and promoted gambling/Loot boxes to their viewers. Some of their viewers could be as young as 7 years old, but that has not stopped them from making those videos.

I wonder if Jingles will make a video about the blame that the CCs for promoting gambling and showing WG that loot boxes are the way forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsmixGntELc

6
DoerteEUOP🥔🥔Protato🥔🥔 - "Player-Rework" soon•

In hindsight, that might end up being how this will be remembered in post-lootbox times: As a promotion of gambling mechanics.

6
Aerroonyoutube.com/aerroon•

For whatever reason people like watching that.

1
chanhdatCruiser Captain for life.•

Talking about prem ships. I, personally, think we do have a tiny little part in helping WG toward aggressive monetisation: The absolute stance on "prem ships should not be changed at all".

From Missouri with its absurd credit multiplier to OP ships like GC. The community and especially a majority of whales wanted their OP toys, and will jump up and down if the nerf hammer comes anywhere near them.

Because of these shiny toys, WG has exactly the carrot that they can lure more whales with, who will throw any amount of money to get their hands on them. And because these can't be nerfed directly (without changing the whole gameplay, CV, IFHE-rework, etc.), they would just add more and more OP ships to keep the whales around. Like sharks smelling bloods, or WG smelling money, why would they stop?

4
Mart7Mcfl7•

Premium ships are not their only source of income though, I bet they make a steady stream of monies in other ways.

3
TheOneWes•

I wonder how much they make on subscriptions to Premium

2
Mart7Mcfl7•

If you take into account premium, buying credits, flags, camos, converting xp etc I'd imagine it's a fair bit of cash :)

1
dodus007•

If I need coins that I play Nelson or thunderer, both I got for free and I enjoy playing both, would never pay $$$$ for a premium ship.

2
abteiFuck WG EU•

i lodged a complaint with PEGI to change their EU rating to PEGI18.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

3
emmaqq•

Having CC that speak up and leave was the best thing that happen to Wargaming. Now they can just replace em with their own 'CC' sheep.

3
Manic_Wombat•

Definitely. New CCs are more likely to bring in new customers with them as well.

1
alexmlb3598•

I've only paid for something once in WoWS: The Atlanta about 3 years ago. All of the other premiums I have I got for free (coal or supercontainers): Georgia, Pommern, Graf Spee, Molotov, Anchorage, it goes on. As for the premium time, I relied on containers. The Italian BB event got me the best part of 40million credits to make things even more comfortable for me, it's great.

2
UnexpectedAnomaly•

Who's buying ships for this game? Most of the premiums suck and the OP ones aren't for sale.

2
wsollersNerf DD AP on BBs (IGN BoondockTaints)•

I don't get the absolute hate of lootboxes. I never buy anything in lootbox form, and I enjoy that prices on everything else are kept somewhat low by those few whales with gambling issues.

2
dsota2•

I mean, if you go to the grocery store to buy food you'd like to be able to buy what you want at a price you like. You don't want to go to grocery store and buy randomized loot boxes full of items until you get your shopping list completed.

3
Manic_Wombat•

https://talkfresh.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505

0
ChristophColombo•

To some extent, you have a point. The issue I have is that content is now being locked behind lootboxes (until the current shitshorm, the only way to obtain Missouri was going to be via lootboxes) and that lootboxes are taking the place of content that used to be directly obtainable one way or another (Summer "Sale", achievement rewards being replaced by missions for lootboxes, the Jutland containers).

Saying "Well, just don't buy the lootboxes" is fine, but it doesn't mean that we still can't be disappointed about the direction that the game is moving.

0
oledayhda•

I would like to reiterate my history with WG. Sadly, I use to give Wargaming thousands a month for tanks & then ships. I don’t regret spending the money but the wasted time with how WoT changed. I did a lot with ‘clams’ then they ruined that by destroying mine & everyone’s gold farm. Diplomacy etc.

The message I want you all to realize & I posted this a few days ago. The top brass at WG can’t stand the fact most of their earnings come from the NA market, yet the biggest player-base is not NA.

I use to be okay with it, especially in WoT back in the day, each region played differently & the ‘pubbies’ were just awful. Even worse in none NA. Most of you are pubbies, if you didn’t have a win rate of 62% or over, I didn’t mess with you. Ah I’m ranting, sorry.

That is neither here or there, back to my point. There use to be a day where the sentiment was. I’m paying WG so others can play for free. Still truth to that but WGs model was always pay to win. I use to be the guy shooting gold rounds when they were worth real money. Yes, it was stat padding & I took a lot of heat & criticism but my money. Then the shift after that was crazy. Flavor of the month tier X & OP Prems.

Anyways, I’m glad the winds are changing. I felt like WoWs originally got it right. No bs round other then HE but you could just play & not worry about too much. It was fun.

The real tragedy about all this is, WG has to keep the lights & servers on. Their arrogance is finally really showing, old school players like me knew it was already there BUT the product was great & so was the community. Now, the bias is on full display. I honestly don’t think they care, WoT is just too popular in other places of the world.

The only protest is to stop sending them money. The light will eventually come on or perhaps not. Just don’t play & regret it! I have… yet miss it from time to time.

2
NaCl-5844•

Yes and this is exactly the reason why WG doesn't really care about CCs and their core playerbase. We already own most of the ships and premium articles, they can only sell new ships and premium time to us. That's why they try to monetise new content with expensive loot boxes. WG's strategy to go for short-term wins while kicking the core players in the balls is still a huge mistake. Why? Because games like Wows need a big playerbase to be attractive for new (paying) players. A game with casual players only will hit their earnings sooner or later.

2