Source
r/Asmongold•
BrownNote

On the topic of casting the eyes into the abyss

Discussion

I imagine there'll be some confusion from new players and those who haven't read the discussions back when it was released about why they just yeeted the eyes over the edge of a bridge.

It's generally recognized by the Ishgardians that the eyes are indestructible - which is why Estinien didn't just destroy them in The Singularity Reactor and instead talked about taking them "far beyond the reach of man and dragon both." Along with this, the Sea of Clouds below Ishgard is mentioned in various side lore as being basically completely inhospitable. A churning eternal cyclone of wind and ice aether that nobody can make their way into.

Knowing both of these, tossing them into that place was actually a really convenient and safe way to get rid of them immediately before any unknown effect could happen to the group.

Posted Aug 25, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

28858
LightRampant•

They also had to get rid of them fast or else the eyes might have taken control of Alphinaud

70
Veltan85•

Ngl, seeing Alphinidhogg would be kinda cool..

41
moof1984•

A full on reddit admin.

58
Langrisser_John•

Spez incarnate. Changing your posts for you

14
BlueFishWoodOx•

A man of culture, I see.

1
saviorself19•

Moderator powers activated …

7
Momo_Kozuki•

Imagine Crystal Brood.

"I am the Brood", said Alphi-hogg

3
Veralion•

That's the upcoming Ultimate fight for sure

2
PlayStationKamiSama•

Weren't the Eyes able to control Estinien because he's a full blooded Ishgardian and that they are especially vulnerable to dragon control? I thought the Eye couldn't possess those without ties to the Ishgardian bloodline.

9
raidakick•

That and Estinien is a habitual line stepper in term of going full Nidhogg per DRG job quest.

You never go full Nidhogg.

11
AurumPickle•

also because his armor was soaked in Nidhoggs blood and aether

9
MazySolis•

Estinien has been possessed once already due to the Dragoon questline in ARR, he even references this when you meet him in the ARR MSQ if you completed Dragoon's questline, just not to the same extent as the end of defeating Thordan due to having both eyes in hand, lowered mental guards due to him relaxing his mind, and the blood all over his armor amplified the effects 10 fold.

The full blooded Ishgard thing is more so if you drink dragon blood you will turn into a dragon, which is why many heretics on Ysayle's side can be seen turning into dragons.

3
Ashgur•

Just give them to the WoL who is invulnerable to such things..

1
MazySolis•

Nidhogg is not a primal and the effects of the eyes' possession isn't the same as tempering so the WoL isn't necessarily immune to such things, beyond plot armor obviously.

They might be able to handle it for an extended period of time, but the WoL from what I can tell shows no signs of just being able to just handle mass amounts of corruptible aether very well simply because they can't be tempered.

Tempering is its own thing, Estinien was able to resist Nidhogg's control for long periods of time (one eye controlled Estinien in the ARR Drg questline without having Nidhogg's blood on him constantly) while holding the one eye given his circumstances throughout most of 3.0, but he'd be tempered by a normal primal pretty much instantly like anyone else if thrown into such a situation.

23
KusanagiKay•

but the WoL from what I can tell shows no signs of just being able to just handle mass amounts of corruptible aether very well simply because they can't be tempered

Not only from what you can tell. >!In Shadowbringers it's literally shown that the WoL cannot handle extreme amounts of corrupt aether, almost dying from taking in the corrupted light aether from the Lightwardens, and if they hadn't used it to destroy Hades with it, over time it would most likely have destroyed them entirely!<

5
Creid233•

In fairness regarding those corruption levels, >!the WOL is suffering, but doesn't break until he has the final Lightwarden's light. He's literally holding onto the entire surplus of light aether that's responsible for unbalancing the first and is far beyond what any other mortal can tolerate.!<

My personal theory is that >!the unstated goal of Emet-Selch's cooperation with us was that he was hoping the WOL could carry that light to the 13th and rebalance that shard, a task he and the other Ascians explicitly could not do due to their (repeatedly) stated weakness to light aether. !<If you consider exactly how much light aether is needed for that, it says a lot about the WOL's corruption tolerance.

4
MazySolis•

I know this, but I didn't want to foreshadow anything as I know that the person I replied to is roughly at Asmongold's pace in the MSQ. (the above is a Shadowbringers spoiler for anyone that doesn't know)

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Momo_Kozuki•

Nidhogg's Eyes feel like the One Ring. You don't want to keep it around you for too long, even if you can resist the effect. While WoL may be okay, who knows what kind of effects it will have on nearby people?

3
Terramagi•

Much like Tom Bombadil, the Warrior of Light would just trade Nidhogg's eyes for half a relic step.

9
SquidmanMal•

Much like casting the ring into mount doom. [but in a parallel world where the goal was to get it somewhere inaccessible, not destroy it]

To be submerged forever in lava, if it literally couldn't be destroyed.

​

Edit: clarity

40
Kagahami•

I thought that Mt Doom explicitly could destroy the ring, because that's where it was forged.

15
SquidmanMal•

Yes indeed. I wasn't clear it all.

​

Basically, throwing it where nothing could ever possibly reach it.

1
cikkamsiah•

It was destroyed no?

1
SquidmanMal•

Yeah, the ring was destroyed. I edited my post for clarity.

1
Skyblade12•

Would be more akin to sending the Ring across the seas to the West.

1
Ashgur•

But OP said the abyss bellow is:

churning eternal cyclone of wind and ice aether

I am not sure that throwing stuff into a tornado is a good idea.. I'd expect to see them thrown/carry away by the current and be found easely.

You have a freaking sword that can kill dragon and gods. You have a WoL who can resist nidhoog eyes's influence ...

You have 2 item that could be used to kill two more ascians...

-1
SquidmanMal•

Less a tornado flinging things, more a constant mulilayered churning whirlpool.

​

Imagine a giant washing machine on spin cycle with glass shards.

7
CrimsonPromise•

Not just a tornado but also giant Aether blender. Since everything in this world is made out of Aether, anyone diving into it would be getting their very soul and life force ripped to shreds in seconds.

1
Phantomx_Destiny•

Yeah but did they have to toss them together

extra spoiler: >!At least make Elidibus search more annoying so he gets a cold and a leg cramp or something!<

11
Momo_Kozuki•

SPOILER WARNING:

.

.

.

.

It is not Elibidus searching for it. It is a the PAL from WoD group. He popped Hallowed Ground and jumped down, immune all damage, I assume.

4
MazySolis•

3.4 spoilers (next section of HW's MSQ that Asmon will probably reach next stream) just in case >!The Paladin is effectively like an Ascian, all the Warriors of Darkness are effectively spirits as their original bodies were left behind for reasons that will be explained, their corporeal forms that we see don't really matter so the Paladin can just get go into an aether death trap like that chasm and be fine in the end.!<

6
BrownNoteOP•

Make him like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaaPlMJBfTo

3
EinYokai•

Tbf, it's a "storm" down there so they get separated anyways.

2
MazySolis•

Yeah I've seen many people over the years meme about throwing them away, but that chasm is effectively impossible to move through by normal means as you'd either freeze to death or get just ripped to shreds by the icey gales before you got half way down even if you tried flying down (god forbid you tried to climb down). Their is some secondary story npc after that cutscene, I think it is Hilda I'm not 100% sure, that outright says "Yeah that chasm is a death trap of wind and ice aether, no one could get ever get down there normally.".

You'd need some sort of heavily reinforced airship that can travel through the chilled air and turbulence that has no open areas or windows that can just dive straight down, retrieve the eyes (without crew stepping outside as they'd probably die), and even then you'd have to be able to ascend back up.

Even if you tried to just take them into someone's possession and lock them away in some kind of vault or seal, you effectively leave giant masses of power that can possess effectively any normal person, just waiting years down the line for them to be taken. It doesn't matter who locks them away or where, someone will eventually break in with or without the key, I think yeeting them into a natural death trap and hopefully history will just forget where the eyes went is probably the safest option given what options they had.

11
1vortex_•

!Yeah the only dumb thing is throwing them on the same side of the bridge. But you can easily let that slide as a “heat of the moment” type thing.!<

9
FamiliarStranger_•

!Don't want to be an ass, but if someone who is at around the same place in the MSQ as Asmongold comes into this thread for an explanation of why throwing them down there was deemed safe, wouldn't your comment give away that it was a bad idea after all and something happens with them? Sure many players probably speculated the eyes weren't completely out of the picture, but confirming it is kind of a spoiler IMO!<

1†
1vortex_•

Not really. >!My comment doesn’t confirm anything other than throwing them off the same side was a dumb move. Even if nobody found the eyes it’s still a dumb move.!<

I can kinda see your point though, so I’ll mark it as a spoiler.

6
zardozardoz•

If you're concerned about spoilers stay away from threads about msq lore content. Lots of stuff becomes relevant later or has continued plot threads in future expansions.

2
FamiliarStranger_•

I've already finished all story content a long time ago, I'm just looking out for newer players which I know there are a lot of in this subreddit. Obviously they shouldn't be looking at threads that could involve spoilers, but this thread specifically exists to explain something to players who just saw this cutscene, so it has an expectation of being free of spoilers.

1
KvBla•

Basically: The Abyss is a magic/aether blender that shreds anything (>!except for a few, of course!<) venturing too far down, the eyes are naturally untouched by this.

The eyes are still charged full of aether, it's indeed possible to just pop them right there instead of tossing them away i believe, but it'd be detonating 2 nuclear bombs at point blank and i'm not sure even the wol can handle that, but everything in a few hundred meters radius would be wiped out even if we somehow survive the explosion.

Keeping them is obviously a bad option.

Can't keep em, can't pop em, best to prevent others from using them.

9
Momo_Kozuki•

Perhaps also to prevent it re-possess Einstein.

1
regnagleppod1128•

Well, I wonder how >!Estinien was able to just simply pierce them away at the end of 4.0 then.!<

5
BrownNoteOP•

While that topic isn't mentioned directly in game, remember that they were >!completely dried of aether by that point, unlike still being a font of endless power like they are where he's at now.!<

27
VivitixWH :OMEGALUL: ?•

Yeah, Estinien says so himself that the eyes >!were "all but spent" of aether and wouldn't be causing trouble anymore, but he destroyed then anyways since "better safe than sorry".!<

22
Mudcaker•

He also had that >!latent Nidhogg power working for him by then, maybe it was required to actually pierce them!<.

8
ScoobiusMaximus•

It's generally recognized by the Ishgardians that the eyes are indestructible

I'm just going to say exactly what I said when I first played that cutscene not long after it came out. A thousand years ago Thordan's knights managed to eat the eyes of Ratatoskr. Presumably they didn't swallow them whole. There must have been a way to destroy the eyes of a great wyrm back then and should still be one at the end of the war.

As much as I loved HW when they threw those eyes off the bridge I basically had the same reaction as Asmon did, and this was years ago.

5
McStreamy•

Sounds like a great place to build a city on top of...

4
Quinburger•

They didn't. Ishgard was green farmland in 1.0, and got messed up and turned to ice when Bahamut exploded out of the moon.

31
AggressiveBonus8825•

Why is the area around Ishgard an abyss of insane, inhospitable wind and ice aether? A dragon emerging from a falling red moon kinda had something to do with it. Ishgard and Coerthas was all green during 1.0.

3
ghettojesusxx•

I think the issue with the Eyes being dropped into the abyss >!is an issue of inconsistent writing as we go on with the plot. The Eye as we know can be depleted, even if only for a duration, and both Eyes weren't glowing when taken out of Estinien, which means its likely depleted. If we look back to what happened when we killed Igeyorhm, the Eye stopped glowing after, and Lahabrea bluntly pointed out that the Eye will now be useless to kill him as we used up all it's power just to kill Igeryorhm. In another example, the second Eye was depleted (as once again, it wasn't glowing) to fuel Thordan, and also, both Eyes once again depleted after powering Shinryu. However, apparently it IS destructible simply by stabbing it after its depleted. Which also makes me question how fast it recharges - one being used to kill an Ascian, another to fuel Thordan, yet it took over Estinien, despite BOTH being depleted? Also, after Shinryu, the eyes sat there for hours into the night, yet it was still depleted? And how did Estinien reach the conclusion that all you need to do is stab it? Idk.!<

Edit: reworded a couple things to make it more understandable, was on phone when I wrote this out originally

3
_Elizion_•

!Tbf, Estinien would be the only person among the WoL and crew who even knows how exactly how the eyes work, and even he might not 100% understand everything about them. There's definitely a leap in logic though when he went from "take them far away" to "just stab them, I guess".!<

!Idk, you could just say Estinien found out about that offscreen between 3.3 and the end of 4.0, but yeah, that is a bit of an oversight with the writing!<

I also think the eyes only glow when they're actively being used i.e. there's no visual indication of when their power is used up. I could be mistaken though, and in that case, it's just inconsistent writing.

2
ghettojesusxx•

Yeah, that's the thing, I myself am not even sure about the rules since it's just all over the place.

!And that's one of the issues with Estinien in Stormblood. Stormblood tries to do way too many things at once at a quick pace, and sadly, a lot of corners were cut. Randomly shows up at Omega's crash site for no reason, then randomly shows up at some lvl68 quest to save the gang, then randomly shows up and gets rid of two of the most evil artifacts in the world, and randomly saves the WoL from Elidibus.!<

!There was certainly a missed opportunity for Estinien to go after Shinryu's remains together with the WoL. Hearing the reports that a "big green thing fell out of the air" that didn't dissipate like all primals are supposed to is the biggest Scions red flag. Would have presented a perfect opportunity to open up on the inner workings of the Eyes. Oh well.!<

Tl;dr: >!Stormblood bad.!<

0
alpabet•

Regarding >!the Sea of Clouds below Ishgard is mentioned in various side lore as being basically completely inhospitable. A churning eternal cyclone of wind and ice aether that nobody can make their way into!<

IIRC it was actually mentioned in game later on why they did that >!At the part when they saw it again, they said it should be impossible to retrieve because of those reasons!<

2
GreatZucchini3•

The only dumb thing to do was to throw them in the same direction.

1
nayefma•

Just drop it man.

1
DireCyphre•

So you're saying theres a lotta bodies down there...

1
BrownNoteOP•

Probably ripped to shreds remains but... yes.

In fact there's like 5 more than there used to be given the cinematic with the dragons tossing people off lol.

2