Least gatekeeping FreeBSD user
Posted Sep 25, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC
520106
might get downvoted by those guys,
but freebsd is not even that hard and it doesnt need that much "discipline"
114
I think the major difference is how the commands actually work because of the different core utilities even though the basic functionality is same. (No lsblk in BSD)
23
No lsblk in BSD
you can pkg install lsblk
3
lsblk is one of those commands you just need on every system, especially useful when troubleshooting or installing. Shouldn't need to install it manually after the fact
2
well i remember there not being lsblk on a few linux distros by default too
idk there's probably other ways to list drives and things
4
As another point of view, I have been using Linux exclusively since 1998, and Unix before that, and I have never used lsblk that I can recall.
2
Last night, I decided to Ironman FreeBSD. Ironically, lsblk was my first stump and I, already defeated, quickly scuttled over to Super User exchange to discover geom!
3
We got by without lsblk for a very long time just fine. You learned to read and interprete dmesg etc. Having it is easier, easier is better, is all.
2
Sounds like you use BSD and what variant do you use?
Edit: I think I misinterpreted your message possibly.
1
Yes you did misinterprete it a bit😃. We= Linux admins... But I've used FreeBSD as well in the past... mostly FreeBSD, once or twice a NetBSD. Got fed up with the (back then) bad HW support. Since I manage some NetApps, and have a simulator or two for that, one might argue I still run a few FreeBSDs😉
3
Ubuntu doesn't even need discipline to learn how to use it like a normal user tbh. It's when people start tinkering with the configuration that stuff can go bad, as I've learned.
8
yeah I installed it on a vm and it’s easier than arch and gentoo lol
2
I think this complaint fits much more to archlinix that was without an installer until recently. FreeBSD has an easy to use installer.
And FreeBSD wasn't even made for the desktop, it happens for the community. In fact, the community on the forum is great, different from this kid who answered you.
46
archinstall works fine (for the most part), and is now shipped on the ISOs, but this is not the recommended way of installing Arch. From the wiki:
Warning: archinstall is experimental software and offers different defaults than the regular installation process. When using a system installed with archinstall, please mention so in support requests and provide
/var/log/archinstall/install.log.
11
I just reinstalled my system and I can say that anyone who is familiar with how the process works and has done it manually should give it a try. I'm having great luck with it.
Being able to copy network config to the installed system was wonderful as well, since I had to install over an Android USB tether and that's an absolute nightmare to set up without a network connection.
2
I tried it as well and it was mostly a pleasant experience.
I had an installation unable to boot after trying out systemd-boot, though. I don't know what was the issue, as I had no time to troubleshoot, so I went ahead and reinstalled it successfully, using GRUB this time.
I've also helped someone on Reddit troubleshoot an issue in which they couldn't install some games on Steam, and it turned out it was because archinstall mounted /tmp as tmpfs through /etc/fstab by default. It's now been reported and fixed (but I guess we'll have to wait for the October release of Arch before it lands).
All in all, a nice addition for experienced users who want a quick way to install Arch, but I don't see it supplanting the manual installation. I know for a fact that my current setup is impossible to reproduce with archinstall.
3
Same but arch still required some fiddling to get what I needed like the AUR and wifi and Bluetooth. It's not hard, but I'm mentioning it for anyone reading. I also don't know why my wifi performance is suddenly crap
1
I actually never got archinstall to work for whatever reason. Guess the livecd really wanted me to do it all manually, good thing it was actually really fun and it went seamlessly for a user who had just left ubuntu because of some issues.
2
Just use the unofficial Calam-Arch-Installer
-1
I don't think Arch's lack of an automated installer has been because "we don't want normies using arch". I think a select handful of misguided and socially challenged kids might say it is on behalf of the developers, just to get off on how special they are, but in reality it's about the intended use for Arch. Arch's whole shtick is that you build it for your machine, your needs, your configuration.
It's either problematic or not actually faster to have a script determine a partition scheme, locale and keyboard settings, network services, etc. etc. for your wants on your hardware. Either it doesn't ask enough questions and you risk it guessing wrong, or it asks all the questions and, well, you might as well just set it up manually per the wiki.
If you don't care about your partition scheme, your network configuration, etc., then you should consider making your life easier with a different distro. Not because I don't want you to use Arch, or because I think you shouldn't, but because I can't imagine why you would.
1
I don't think Arch's lack of an automated installer has been because "we don't want normies using arch".
Except one of the devs more or less literally said that somewhere. It was something like "if we make it too accessible, it's going to get used by people who don't have the skills to make use of it as intended, which will lead to annoyance for everyone".
1
that doesn't mean they're locking out normies. it means they want the difficulty of the entry point to reflect the difficulty of the rest of the system. their logic is that if you can't handle a manual installation, you won't be able to maintain the system after installation either. any normie is free to learn how to arch (that's why the wiki is public), and working your way through the installation is like their entrance exam
archies still tend to be elitist but IMO that's ok because there's so many newb-friendly distros you can pick instead. not really the case for BSD where newb-hostility is the norm across flavors
3
Right, now tell me how "making an entry difficult" is different to "locking someone out"?
1
Gatekeeping open source software that is freely accessible is cringe AF, and hurts the whole philosophy behind It.
Edit: spelling
45
Of course. Gotta keep the peasantry away from the golden throne you so deservedly sit on because you were obviously made to be simply better than everyone else. Can't have the lowly humans rummaging around your divine distro. /s
20
Distro?
3
Alliteration > accuracy
5
We should all try to encourge Linux uptake, not act as gatekeepers. The more people who use Linux distros, the more support it gets.
18
BSD is not Linux friend
2
I am aware, but the sentiment is still the same.
15
We should all band together to educate the world of the gospel of greybeards, for He, our Lord and saviour Dennis Ritchie, bringer of the almighty and divine UNICS, allowed us to C and reach forth the keyboard to rid the world of that which is of the unholy hell-spawn NT, with might …and rudimentary procedural code.
3
In my experience, the most gatekeepy community has been the Exherbo Linux Community. Thankfully, they gatekeeped themselves out of existence. I cannot put into words how toxic that community was, it was insane.
17
Never heard of this distro. Could you provide more details?
15
Exherbo Linux Exherbo is a source-based Linux distribution inspired by the flexibility found in Gentoo Linux (among others). Designed primarily for developers and advanced users who are expected to take an active role in the development of the distribution, Exherbo offers a decentralised development model, original code, and a fast and flexible package manager called Paludis.
13
+1 i wanna know too
6
I remember them. They saw themselves like an avant-garde hipster-only i-am-really-badass distro. If I'm not wrong at some time on their very homepage they stated something like "don't expect support if things break, you're on your own and you're an idiot if you don't know how to fix them". Yikes.
Oh, and not long ago they had some juicy drama too.
imho sometimes the only FOSS project that seems to be closer in that, ahem, spirit, is OpenBSD.
8
If I'm not wrong at some time on their very homepage they stated something like "don't expect support if things break, you're on your own and you're an idiot if you don't know how to fix them".
When did their website say that? (I'll lookup that specific homepage date on archive.org to see how crazy they were.)
Edit: Init system? Eh, we'll get to that eventually. In the mean time, write a frickin' bash script.
imho sometimes the only FOSS project that seems to be closer in that, ahem, spirit, is OpenBSD.
I've never tried OpenBSD because of their complete refusal to implement any other filesystems than the shitty UFS and FFS filesystems. (Because of Licensing "concerns"). Hearing that, it sounds like I made a good decision.
1
I think OpenBSD just lacks the devpower/numbers to show concern for features the current users don't see as necessary. This might come off as dismissive, or they might suggest the user asking for help in a forum do something like write a script or use a patch. Heaven forbid! I have never met with any spite in the OpenBSD community, though I have met with sparsity.
3
Well, the OpenBSD project is very open about its expectation that every OpenBSD user also have the ability to act as an OpenBSD developer and that help will normally only be provided to you in that capacity. Doesn't necessarily lead to a friendly environment, but at the end of the day, why should time be wasted on someone who was explicitly told what to expect from your product? If you buy a bag of cake mix, you wouldn't think of calling the company headquarters and ask them general questions on how to bake either.
In that vein, I see nothing wrong with Exherbo's attitude.
1
Was the distro supposed to be a satire? Seems pretty much like one. The sentences on their home page seems too over the top to be real.
2
never heard of that distro... I checked it on Distrowatch, it lists just 1 release?
2
Maybe it's rolling release.
2
It's bad enough that they're gatekeeping, it's even worse that they're essentially attempting to brag about simply being able to use FreeBSD.
16
The thing that made/makes BSD (and also Linux, back in the day before it became a badge of egoistic and professional techbro honor) FUN was that the folks in the community, the usenet groups, the distribution lists, and the forums all took time to help newbs learn the ropes, fall in love, then pay that same kindness, fun, and passion forward. The Greybeards had our back.
And in case anybody wants to call me a boomer for this, please note that I'm only 34 yrs old. 😘
What we see today is the proliferation of shitty attitudes that, in my 20+ years of compiling and using *NIX fall into primarily two categories:
1/ I call this one the "StackOverfuck" - - instead of gently or kindly inviting someone (a beginner) who is clearly lost or needs help to check out some documentation or useful guides, or to join a community where their questions CAN be answered...the response is just "This question doesn't belong here...fck off," OR "Duplicate question. Closing...fck off."
2/ I call this one the "Superiority Shit Sandwich" - - instead of HELPING or guiding, reacting with: "eyeroll If you are asking these questions, then maybe you shouldn't use *NIX, you might hurt yourself."
This is how you kill the spirit of Open Source.
Shame on everyone who treats newbs and neophytes this way. That's not the way the community came into existence, that's not the spirit in which we were all brought into it. That's not how our curiosity was encouraged or fostered.
If you can't help - or don't want to - then please, please, just move along quietly...rather than being a dick, a pedant, or a condescending asshole.
11
People who talk about Linux elitism have probably never seen the FreeBSD community.
10
FreeBSD is fun to use
9
Ah shit, then I guess my proxmox server running 5 instances of Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS has totally ruined my IT experience. Nevermind the fact that only yesterday I just learned about iptables and reverse proxy on Nginx to serve my media server outside my home.
7
not all of us are like this i promise lol
5
Some things are easier to grasp, and Ubuntu is one of them. It lowers the skill threshold for newbies, which is ultimately good because some of those newbies will become great professionals. But the majority of them will become holy warriors of reddit.
4
what damage has Ubuntu done?
4
It didn't install properly on my pc or something. Seriously though, I think ubuntu is a fine distro for browsing the web, spreadsheets, and graphic design, but I would recommend Manjaro for gaming.
2
*laugh at using ubuntu in proot on android when i first into linux.
3
bruh
3
Gatekeepers also never open their windows, because they think stale air is healthier than fresh air.
2
What damage has Ubuntu done?
2
Is this really how the FreeBSD community is perceived? It makes me really sad if that is the case, I thought it's the exact opposite. Even if this was an innocent joke from OP, it only instigates a wave of hate against FreeBSD which it really doesn't deserve, some people in this comment section are clearly 100% serious. Let's just be nice
2
The only thing that's not a kid's game about FreeBSD is hoping it supports your hardware
The only thing that's not fun about FreeBSD / DragonflyBSD is trying to get the drm kernel module to fucking work so that swaywm works.
On every single Linux Distribution, the drm kernel module works. On FreeBSD and DragonflyBSD, the drm kernel module does not work.
Wait why does swaywm depend on drm? What?
Why would sway not depend on DRM (direct rendering manager)?
Because I thought sway wouldn't depend on DRM (Digital rights management) lmao
namespace collision
Idk, works just fine for me
Ah yes, the dreaded "Works on my machine!" response.
Maybe they simply don't support my GPU (RX480 8GB VRAM).
It’s also not like you gave much insight into what your issues are. I have the same GPU and it works.
It’s like playing roulette on mine. Boot the server. Will the entire thing just lock up and the screen go blank, or will you safely get to the login prompt? Hedge your bets now.
The probability ratio is 85:15.
CPU is a Phenom II quad core 945 and GPU is a Radeon HD 3000 integrated into the AMD 780G motherboard. 4GB of DDR3 RAM. Purpose is dual-homed firewall with proxy cache capabilities.
bruh for me it's my realtek wifi card. None of the FreeBSD based distros i've tried can detect it.
Sometimes, I have problems with
wpa_supplicantandnmtui. Try this command and see if it works:nmcli device wifi connect SSID password SSID_passwordthere isn't a wifi device at all, i can't download anything during the installation or after it. It only detects my ethernet port and my router is mounted on the wall
Have literally never been able to use it, I guess I'm spoiled with too new components.