A truly comical Jim Benning trade tree

#The Kesler Trade

I'm sure the Canucks owners absolutely get too involved with their hockey team... but you cannot possibly convince me they orchestrated all of this while Benning was just a figurehead. This shit sandwich just has too many layers.

Sorry if it's tough to follow; summary is at the end.


June 24th, 2014

Out:

In:

Before we look at the players in this return...


June 24th, 2014 (later the same day)

Out: 85th OV

In: Derek Dorsett

At the time, what you were getting in Dorsett was well known. He was 27 years old with 331 games over 6 seasons, contributing 73 points and 855 penalty minutes while mostly playing 11-12 mins/game. A face-punching 4th liner, albeit one that produces some points. In his first year with the Canucks he became a fan favourite, recording 25 points and 175 penalty minutes... but under the surface it was ugly:

... proved a significant drag in nearly every aspect of the game ... exactly zero of Dorsett’s teammates benefited as a result of skating alongside Dorsett ... the Canucks are hemorrhaging [10 bell] scoring chances with Dorsett on the ice.

What did Benning do with his 4th line face-puncher? A 4-year, $10.6m extension. Now making $2.65m, the next season he "continued along his career path of being a unique combination of punching faces while being an average fourth liner":

the Canucks were better off in every measure above [goal based, scoring chances, shot attempts] without Dorsett on the ice coupled with the alarming amount of scoring chances against ...

Dorsett's career would unfortunately end with injury after that, playing just 34 games over his last 2 seasons.


The Canucks used their newly acquired 24th OV to select Jared McCann, who spent another year in junior before surprising everyone by making the Canucks for opening night, jumping straight to the NHL for 69 games at age 19. CanucksArmy had this to say on May 22nd, 2016:

The Canucks have an excellent piece to build with in McCann. It’s becoming increasingly clear that McCann’s offensive punch is considerably more potent than we gave him credit for at the draft and it’s hardly at the expense of his defensive game, which was passable in his first year as a professional hockey player.


May.25.2016 (3 days after that article)

Out:

In:

Gudbranson was a 3rd overall pick, now 6.5 years removed from the draft, who had generally shown very little ability to be a top-4 NHL defenseman:

plays well in his defensive end, but poorly in the offensive end... will need a lot of work on his offensive game if he wants to make the jump from a bottom pairing player

Gudbranson, in year #1 (Jun.14.2017):

This season wasn’t kind to the 25-year-old defenseman ... purely based on this season, one would be justified in saying he isn’t a top-four defenseman ... no leverage in the negotiations because of how poorly he played this year ... quite the punching bag

Gudbranson, in year #2 (May.22.2018):

Fast forward a year later, and Gudbranson has done little to silence the skepticism ... No NHL defenceman was worse than Gudbranson at controlling scoring chances, while only four fell short of him with regards to controlling shot attempts ... Gudbranson stands out as the only Canucks’ defenceman performing below replacement-level.

Halfway through the season where Gudbranson was worst in the league at controlling scoring chances and the only Canuck defenseman below replacement-level... he was given a 3 year, $12m extension. "I don’t think skill players enjoy playing against him," said the Canucks’ rookie coach [Travis Green].

Gudbranson ultimately played 139 games over 2.5 years for Vancouver with almost disastrous results across the board.


February 25th, 2019

Out: Erik Gudbranson

In: Tanner Pearson

Like everybody watching the first-ever alley-oop... some.. bizarre series of events... led to a team giving up an asset ... for Gudbranson (?)

Pearson was a reclamation project who had showed some flashes but was generally unproductive for long stretches with both LA and PIT. He quickly flourished with the Canucks, making this (so far) the only branch of the tree that hasn't promptly withered and died.

In 19 games after the deadline, Pearson was a monster:

Pearson’s numbers weren’t just encouraging on the surface level—and he doesn’t need to keep scoring at such a ridiculous pace to remain a positive contributor to the team moving forward

His first full season with the Canucks was another great campaign, though you'll notice Brett Lee (the writer) was positing "hmm, time to sell high?"...

a flagship year for the 28-year old winger ... career-high in points with 45 in just 69 games ... accomplished while largely playing extremely tough defensive matchups riding shotgun to Bo Horvat.

Halfway through year despite some struggles and missing time with injury, he was given a 3 year deal @ $3.25m per.


January 29th, 2015

Out: Gustav Forsling

In: Adam Clendening

We step aside from the tree momentarily to discuss a minor trade deadline deal that occured 7 months after the Kesler deal.

Clendening was a 2nd round pick 4 years prior, a 22 year old prospect with 118 points in 185 AHL games, while Gustav Forsling was still playing in Europe, having been drafted by Benning 6 months ago in the 5th round.

Forsling would play 3rd pairing minutes for Chicago the next season, and is now playing >21mins/game for the Florida Panthers.

Clendening played 17 games with the Canucks (scoring 0 goals and 2 assists) and 11 with their AHL affiliate.

For his part, Benning didn't regret the trade the next year... I wonder if he does now...


July 28th, 2015

Out:

In:

  • Brandon Sutter

  • 2016-???-3rd (conditional; higher of 2 3rd round picks owned)

Bonino's first season was largely successful:

... the most efficient rate scorer on the Canucks by a sizable margin ... a solid possession player by all accounts ... A positive raw and relative showing ... proved a more than competent player [at controlling high danger scoring chances]

Despite that, he was promptly shipped after 1 season, again with a prospect and moving down in the draft, to pick up Sutter.

Sutter was given a significant extension before playing a single game for Vancouver - 5 years and ~$22m. How about that.

Before being acquired, Sutter missed 3 games over the previous 5 (five!) seasons. Through 6 years with the Canucks he averaged 46 games/year and in his 7th year he has yet to play. That's just bad luck... but even healthy? His production in CAR, PIT, and VAN is all a 31 point pace, playing the same defensive minutes Bonino had.


June 18th, 2017

Out: Luca Sbisa

In: (nothing; Vegas Golden Knights expansion draft)

When he was acquired, Luca Sbisa was a project at best:

relegated to the 9th D role in Anaheim ... no reason why Luca Sbisa should earn the $2.9 million he’ll make this season ... Guys should be near their peak at 24, not still a “project.” ... never really been close to an average possession player

The best part of acquiring Sbisa was that his contract expires. Yet inexplicably, after a first year that was mostly disasterous...

a very rough first season ... often found themselves pinned in their zone for minutes at a time ... isn’t a long list of NHL regulars who performed worse at suppressing scoring chances ... where the ten-bell chances are concerned, Sbisa looks even worse

...Benning rewarded Sbisa with a 3 year, $3.6m contract. Surely he'll get better in year 2, right?

done wonders to convince me Sbisa might be an NHL defenceman ... Assuming further development, Sbisa could develop into a high-end third pairing defender - if there ever was such a thing

Sadly, Sbisa didn't figure it out the next season either...

a semi-competent third pair defenceman with a degree of utility based on his ability to play as poorly on his off-side as his preferred side

...and is now best known for an atrocious giveaway on a routine play ... for the Cup-winning goal.


#THE SUMMARY

  • Out:

33rd OV

94th OV

Ryan Kesler

A future 2nd (2016-ANA)

A future 3rd (2015-VAN)

Prospect (Forsling)

  • In:

140th OV

A future 3rd (2016-VAN-3rd; they ended up getting their own pick back)

Derek Dorsett (1 terrible season, massive extension, cap anchor, retired)

Jared McCann (1 good season, traded)

Nick Bonino (1 good season, traded)

Luca Sbisa (1 terrible season, big extension, 2 more terrible seasons, claimed in draft)

Brandon Sutter (immediate big extension, 7 seasons of cap anchor, still under contract)

Erik Gudbranson (1.5 terrible seasons, big extension, 1 more terrible season, traded)

Adam Clendening (17 unproductive games)

Tanner Pearson (~1.5 very good seasons, big extension, still under contract)


#Thoughts:

At almost every step, Benning made the wrong decision.

  • Of 8 players he targeted, only 3 proved even REMOTELY useful... And 2 of those were traded immediately. Tanner Pearson is the only thing preventing this trade tree from being an unmitigated disaster.

  • Of the 5 players he kept, who ranged from (mostly) NHL-worst-kind-of-awful to merely-below-average, 3 of them were given questionable (and unnecessary!) contract extensions that proved to be terrible anchors on the team, and while I won't argue Tanner Pearson didn't deserve his deal, he also hasn't lived up to it since (not that anyone on the Canucks has over the past 1.5 years).

  • He gave up more prospects/picks than he acquired. When he did acquire picks, it was usually by moving down in the draft. Gotta pay up for those guys who are simultaneously "tough to play against" but somehow also bleed scoring chances against regularly.


Apologies for any inconsistencies or errors; call me out on them so I can fix.

#Can you believe getting rid of Benning took 8 years?!

Posted Dec 6, 2021, 11:22 PM UTC · edited

320102
Zoidberg22•

Jim Benning's list of dmen he acquired as GM is just ghastly.

238
Jazzlike_Kick_5434:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

The only part I take issue with in this list is Dorsett.

He may not have done a lot on the scoresheet but he always stood up for his teammates and took on all comers. We could use somebody like him now, seems to be sorely lacking in the current roster.

83
GpRex:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

He was on a tear, looking like a career year, when he got hurt too.

42
ReliablyFinickyOP•

…is that what the Canucks are lacking? Face-punching? If the Canucks had a face puncher to stand up for teammates, you think this is a playoff team?

9†
Jazzlike_Kick_5434:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Its not just face punching - having teammates that are willing and capable of standing up for each other is an important component of any successful team.

I've never seen a championship quality team that didn't have it as an ingredient. They protect skill players and younger players, and hold other teams accountable.

19
[deleted]•

[deleted]

17
TheNantucketRed:NHLR-HartfordWhalers1: Hartford Whalers - NHLR•

Ie: Rangers last year vs Rangers this year. They feel more freedom to hit hard/play with an edge when you have a Ryan Reaves. Helps people buy into Gallant’s system, since they are all in it together if things get rough vs. individual battles.

5
StealthTomato:NHL-PIT3: PIT - NHL•

The Penguins in 2016 didn’t.

3
FrankenBerryGxM:NHL-PIT1: PIT - NHL•

And the puck he traded for him never played in the nhl

4
Fogagain1919•

Had the same thoughts. Huge respect to him.

1
SuddenlyChineseFood:NHL-VAN7: VAN - NHL•

Not to mention the dmen that he has lost for nothing.

3
MrHarbringer:NHL-VAN6: VAN - NHL•

Laid out like this it's hard to defend - of course the original trade was mostly out of his hands, Kesler demanded it, but the rest... Damn.

The bottom pairings he signed over the years stacked up are a bit ridiculous

81
frdxy•

i always give Benning a bit of a pass for the initial trade, but that's all he gets.

you know, there's a lot in this trade tree, and basically the only favorable exchange for the Canucks was Tanner Pearson. the Sutter trade wasn't disastrous in isolation i suppose but he was overpaid anyway which was shit because of all the other expensive depth signings.

22
goldfishmemory-:NHL-VAN5: VAN - NHL•

Most egregious by far is giving ELITE Louie Ericksson a 6 x 6 contract. Just WHY

14
MrHarbringer:NHL-VAN6: VAN - NHL•

Honestly look at how it was recieved at the time - it wasn't panned and it wasn't loved. I suspect the Sedins were asking for him as well.

21
goldfishmemory-:NHL-VAN5: VAN - NHL•

6 years is something you give a guy coming into his prime, not a 30 yr old

7
GangreneMachine:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

That was just a bad offseason in general. Ladd, Nielsen, Lucic, Eriksson all signed monster deals and shit the bed.

13
superworking:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Lots of 30 year olds get deals with term in free agency. The team thought he would bring them back to the playoffs for a few years and then accept it would be bad for a few years after that. It may have been the deal that worked out worst but not necessarily the worst move.

9
Pleionosis:NHL-VAN1: VAN - NHL•

Rumor is that he targeted Sbisa over Theodore because he saw him as more NHL ready and predicted that we'd be winning soon.

10
GangreneMachine:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Sigh........

3
superworking:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

It also was a pissed off Kesler who wanted traded earlier but ownership was rumoured to have blocked it. Then when pressed later for a trade Kesler reduced the teams he was willing to go to to one.

4
awayfromcanuck•

So I'm fine with the return we got from the original Kesler trade, we had limited options and he apparently Franco either nixxed a trade to Pitts that Gillis was making or Pittsburgh pulled out but each subsequent trade just got worst and worst. Like if we just walked away with the original Kesler trade it's fine.

49
ReliablyFinickyOP•

Exactly this. Every step the knife goes deeper.

Walk away from Sbisa, resign Bonino, keep McCann, you’re golden.

25
BEANfromBRAMPTON:NHL-VAN6: VAN - NHL•

Francesco nixxed Kesler to the Pens. Gillis was ready to pull the trigger https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ryan-kesler-opens-up-trade-request-canucks

14
awayfromcanuck•

So article doesn't say Franco nixxed trade just Gillis had a trade in place that feel through. So either Franco nixxed or Pittsburgh cancelled the trade because of Letang injury

8
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Panarin10•

Nice write up.

Only trade I can think of that was great was a 1st for Miller.

Basically drafting well kept him in office for 8 years.

The Pearson deal is fine though. 2m-3.9m is standard for 3rd line wingers. It’s the coaches fault for giving him 2nd line minutes.

19
Chrussell:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Gudbranson for Pearson was a great trade for sure. Also would say the Leivo, Vanek, and Granlund trades ended up pretty good.

19
numberonebuddy:NHLR-TorontoArenas2: Toronto Arenas - NHLR•

Leivo trade was gift wrapped due to Babcock's stubbornness.

11
BrocktheFlow:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Benning also whiffed on 2 high picks in Virtanen (there is word there was pressure from ownership on this one) and Juolevi.

12
mabbz:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

The Juolevi pick definitely hurts. I guess they wanted a Dman which is why they passed on Tkachuk but they had options in McAvoy, Chychrun and Sergechev. All of which ended up a hell of a lot better than OJ.

14
Patroks•

Injuries, hard to judge what could have been.

3
mabbz:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

If I recall Chychrun was rated higher than OJ. I’m also surprised Judd didn’t push for MacAvoy since they did such a good job scouting NCAA

3
captainbling•

Name 5 teams who didn’t whiff on 2 or less of 7 high picks. Virtanen played 315 games too so that’s hard to call a total whif. Guess how many games the player drafted above and below him played.

1
Merovingi92:NHL-CBJ1: CBJ - NHL•

That was a rough one to read. Just a list of horrible decisions.

17
_Alf_in_POG_Form_:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

First and foremost I'm totally happy that Benning is out, but what about the Baertschi and the Grandlund trades? Those imo were wins that seem to be omitted.

On the other hand you also forgot about the horrible Dahlen trade/ mis-management. Dude is scoring often in San Jose.

EDIT: the 2nd rounder Van gave for Baertschi turned into Rasmus Andersson.

17
ReliablyFinickyOP•

If you own 25 cars and only crash 20 of them, that’s pretty good right?

20
_Alf_in_POG_Form_:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

Obviously his history is quite terrible but when you say things like 3 of 8 players targeted only proved remotely useful and then omit 2 players that were useful in whatever capacity it shows that you're cherry picking examples.

7
Gnome_de_Plume:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

I think OP is only discussing the Kesler trade tree

Getting Goldobin and Dahlen were decent gambles though only the former was really given a chance to succeed.

22
captainbling•

Kesler wanted out so this speel feels heavily targeted.

0
indearthorinexcess•

what about the Baertschi and the Grandlund trades? Those imo were wins that seem to be omitted.

You're trying to point to two non-factors as wins for Benning? Just think about that. They didn't immediately blow up in his face, so that's a win. Baertschi for 2nd rounder is a loss anyway

13
Effective-Site4774•

Those two names were very big pieces of the team a few years ago. Saying they’re non factors is a bad take.

-2
kaabistar:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

They were decent-to-good players in years where the team sucked and achieved little of note. The Granlund trade was a win since Shinkaruk was nothing, but I'd rather have Rasmus Andersson now than Baertschi for those few seasons where the team was shit anyway.

5
yellowledbetter16:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

The team was also notably bad then. Jayson Megna was a first-liner

2
GangreneMachine:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Baertschi was in no way a win. That pick became Rasmus Andersson.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Louberry:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

Ive always felt the clendenning forsling trade is blown way out of proportion and everyone acts like it was such an obviously bad trade at the time.

Forsling was a small recently drafted 5th round pick that the canucks felt they could trade while his value had just peaked from a good world junior showing. H

Clendenning was a legitimately great AHL defenceman who the canucks thought was ready to make the jump to the big league although we now know his game wouldnt translate to the nhl.

Also forsling was a waiver wire pickup by florida, most teams in the league could have grabbed him last year and didnt.

15
RedCord18•

Glad you pointed that out. Kinda like the Grabner trade as well in that Both players needed time and the right opportunity to succeed and went through waivers before they got that.

11
Louberry:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

100%

1
numberonebuddy:NHLR-TorontoArenas2: Toronto Arenas - NHLR•

I mostly agree with you, but this

who the canucks thought was ready to make the jump to the big league

Can't be a legitimate defense of the trade. Of course they thought that. The issue is that thinking was wrong.

2
Louberry:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

It's wrong in hindsight, which has been my whole argument. It's easy to look at any trade that didnt work out and go "wow that was a poor decision in the end".

I was just arguing the reasoning behind the trade from the canucks standpoint at the time.

Considering his play and points from 2 seasons in the ahl and a brief nhl stint with Chicago you can see why he looked like an nhl ready prospect so i dont think it was a bad trade in 2015. But yes, in 2021 it can be seen as a lost trade.

4
crazycanucks77:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

That's just these deals. That's pretty bad. Then factor in the following. Eriksson signed for 6 years. Beagle signed for 4 years Rousell signed for 4 years. Myers for 5 years Traded the expiring contracts of Erksson, Beagle and Rousell to get tied 7 years of OEL. Picking Jake Virtanen over Tyler Tifolli. You "ran out of time" to sign the guy you actually wanted to stay here long term and picked the worst player who always showed up to camp overweight and underperforming.

12
WinterSon:NHL-OTT6: OTT - NHL•

didn't kesler request a trade or they were dealing to get rid of his salary?

7
awayfromcanuck•

Demanded a trade and nixxed one trade if my memory is correct

15
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
SirFull3088•

He pretty much had no choice with the Kesler trade. The other trades that followed were shit, yes. But he also made some good ones like the Miller trade, and potentially the blockbuster trade with Arizona (tbd)

6
numberonebuddy:NHLR-TorontoArenas2: Toronto Arenas - NHLR•

potentially the blockbuster trade with Arizona (tbd)

Garland is fantastic, but trading three expiring deals for one long, big one isn't good at all. Any cap efficiency you gain from Garland's contract is completely canceled out by also having OEL.

4
SirFull3088•

Yes but OEL is a net positive player who's worth most of that contract, at least for now. I think it'll depend on how he ages.

4
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
StuGats:NHL-TOR8: TOR - NHL•

The only difference between Benning's and Bergevin's tenures is that Bergevin had prime Carey Price to cover his mistakes. They both had a long history of aimless trades lol. It's only fitting they get canned in the same year.

5
awayfromcanuck•

Benning had Markstrom to cover a lot of his mistakes and Markstrom did infact cover a lot of his mistakes.

Canucks by all accounts should have finished 31st in multiple seasons but Markstrom kept the team out of the basement and only at the entrance of the basement.

5
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
burnabybambinos:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

That's not a Trade Tree

Who did the picks become? What became of them?

4
ReliablyFinickyOP•

I tried to present the picks in terms of “value at the time”; whomever ends up being selected with the pick is simply a matter of one mans opinion.

Whether or not the 33rd overall turns out amazing or horrific doesn’t matter when trying to evaluate “was this a good decision at the time”.

That being said, I will update who the picks became when I get back to my computer, on mobile now. Sorry!

7
burnabybambinos:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Those picks absolutely have to be detailed thoroughly.

Scouting Departments have tiers they track, And those tiers differ from draft to draft. A traded 33 overall In a weak draft can be no different than a 65 in another. GMs know this , that's why you see at trade deadline some years the late 1s are moving, whereas in others you can't acquire a high 2. Scouts tell their GM the picks they absolutely must keep, and not move

2†
captainbling•

They hate you because your right. We have clear stats of hot drafts and colds ones. The talking heads bring it up all the time during draft night.

2
jewmpaloompa:NHL-VAN4: VAN - NHL•

I know 33rd overall became rasmus asplund. I dont think any of the picks became anything else

4
nihilism_ftw:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

I think we technically got Lockwood from one of the picks, maybe the one in the Sutter trade?

3
Troy95:NHL-VAN6: VAN - NHL•

Rasmus Apslund of the Sabres and Filip Gustavsson of Ottawa (originally drafted by PIT) were two of them

1
Tasden:NHL-TBL1: TBL - NHL•

Wow, what a comedy.

3
Significant_Data2123:NHL-VAN9: VAN - NHL•

Kesler gave them a 2 team list and one team didn't want him at all. I'm not a Benning defender, but this is just a weird take.

3
MrHarbringer:NHL-VAN6: VAN - NHL•

It's the subsequent moves - they're all a loss

2
WingleDingleFingle:NHL-VAN5: VAN - NHL•

McCann is so good and I always forget that we had him. I can't believe we gor rid of him for pennies on the dollar.

3
Whydoesthisexist15:NHL-CAR3: CAR - NHL•

McCann is good but he was picked right before Pasta 😬

Not gonna dunk on him too hard for that but still unfortunate. Knowing Benning though he would’ve traded him for a 2nd and Frans Nielsen

2
WingleDingleFingle:NHL-VAN5: VAN - NHL•

True, but I mean thinking like that Pasta probably goes first overall in that draft so almost every other team could have taken him as well.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
GangreneMachine:NHL-VAN3: VAN - NHL•

Bonino for Sutter is just ridiculous...and then he calls Sutter a "foundational player" during a contract negotiation. Like is he brain-dead?

3
KingVikram:NHL-VAN1: VAN - NHL•

What about his hits? Miller Garland Schmidt Toffoli Motte Baertschi Shipping out Garrison

Also, Pearson was a good trade.

2
wwbulk•

Miller - good

Garland - Consider we gave up a 9th overall and a second this year, it’s hard to call this a win

Schmidt - it was an ok trade. He never worked out with the team and got a third back. Not sure how this is considered a win in your view.

Toffoli - this is actually a really shity trade because he was not resigned. Giving up Madden and a high pick for 10+ games from Toffoli? How is that a good trade?

Motte - good trade, but not an important player

Baertschi - I think most would rather want the second and have Rasmus Andersson instead. Not sure again how this is good.

Garrison - he had value and was on a decent contract. He got a pick out of him.

Pearson - it was a good trade, but Benning was the one who dig his own whole and acquired Gurbandson.

It’s pretty sad that you came up with a list of “ good trades” and only two is a win for the Canucks while a lot of them don’t break even or are clear losses. We haven’t even began discussing Benning’s worse trades.

Surprised to see anyone still defending Benning.

0
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
seeldoger47:NHL-BUF1: BUF - NHL•

Did he lose every trade and extension but the Kesler trade?

1
johal61:NHL-VAN1: VAN - NHL•

Made some good trades. Extensions were actually decent. He fumbled UFA contracts for breakfast tho.

2
seeldoger47:NHL-BUF1: BUF - NHL•

Was referring to the trade tree OP presented, not the trades he made over the entirety of his career.

1
HopelesslyHuman:NHL-PIT1: PIT - NHL•

Lots of Pittsburgh names in this thread.

1