[3000] Courage, Draft 2, part 3 NSFW

NSFW

Hi all, Back with the third and last part of this story. The feedback I've gotten here for this body of work has been amazing. Seriously, there are so many talented people here and I am very grateful to have found this sub.

All feedback is good feedback. I am open to anything. Harsh critiques don't bother me either. Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings. Rip it to pieces. It helps me learn and improve. Thanks in advance.

I do want to give a trigger warning for sexual assault. If that kind of thing bothers you, you might want to skip this one.

Story: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1itwjBvURyA4sj-MddNMPjKx9HPEG4ydFfT4GuC568oM/edit?usp=sharing

Critiques: https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/rci6ig/1794_folklore/ho9f345/

The next two crits are from a couple of weeks ago. I critiqued about 3400 words for a 2084 word submission. So I am cashing in those remaining 1400 words here, with Mod approval of course.

https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/qyhmn9/1742_hello_michelle/hljnt7v/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/comments/qyfc6f/1770_the_future_of_paedophilia/hlgcapu/

Posted Dec 12, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

67
Arowulf_Trygvesen•

(1/2)

Hello! I hope I'm still in time with this critique to provide you some feedback before you change the project. Since you mentioned in all your posts that you can take harsh critiques, I’ll cut the fluff. I would like to state upfront that although I have lots of things to say, I think you can be proud that you put a story this long on paper and convince a random guy on the internet to read it all. It certainly wasn’t as terrible of an experience as this critique might make it seem to be. ;)

I hadn't read parts 1 and 2 before, so your summary in the comments helped. However, if you're posting multiple parts (especially 3 or more), I would recommend just adding a summary to your post. It can serve as a recap for people who have read the previous parts, as well as make it more inviting for people to just drop by and critique the prose for example.

Anyhow, I read part 3 and I felt a mixture of confusion and disappointment. I then decided to read parts 1 and 2 and re-read part 3, to see if that would change anything. And yes, it did make the reading experience of part 3 better, but it also made some issues more obvious. Since I read all parts I will pretend to critique the story as a whole, and not just focus on part 3. I will therefore not really go into sentence-level edits.

General

Alright, I’m not going to lie. Your post stood out to me because it was marked NSFW. I think you did well to do so, and I especially like that you explained why it’s NSFW. This is also a minor issue I have though. It’s marked NSFW for sexual assault. It’s not. It’s rape. I know this is a very ‘heavy’ thing to say in your post and it will turn many readers away. I understand why you would thus go for ‘sexual assault’, but I don’t think it’s quite fair in my opinion. Food for thought.

There is a lot of mentioning of brand names (alcohol), a car name, specific ‘slang’ for clothing etc. This completely pulled me out of the immersion. At times I felt detached from the story because of it. I’m not a car guy, nor do I drink, so seeing the specific brand of car and brand of drink just made me go ‘huh what’s that supposed to be?’. I also don’t think it matters. Saying ‘on the table lay a bottle of Bud’ only confuses me more than ‘on the table lay a bottle of beer’. I feel like it’s a recurring issue that you overdescribe some things and underdescribe others. Ironically, this is something I struggle with as well. I’ll get back to this later.

In part 3 you use *** 5 times (in 5 pages!) That’s a lot! At one point there are no more than 65 words between ***’s. I think you can cut all of them. You don’t need ***’s for skipping the time he’s in the shower. Personally I’d only use ***’s if you cut to Jeremy doing something a month later or so.

Characters

I felt overwhelmed with names and characters. Especially in part one. So much so, that I had to keep a list of who’s who. In part one (1000 words), 9 names introduced. That is one per 115 words! (At least half of those are redundant). Here’s the list I kept, with my impressions of them: Cody – kid in karate class; Ashley – kid in karate class; Flynn – dark hair, kid in karate class who wants to touch the spider; charley – the spider; Dave – karate master, warm and capable; Jeremy – friend of Dave (and his bodyguard); Paul – friend of Dave, uses drugs, funny; Tamara – Not liked by Jeremy, Pauls girlfriend; Roxanne – friend of Paul; annoying cackle.

See what I mean? Chances are you just skipped this because the summary alone is overwhelming. Also, if you read about what I picked up on them, it’s not really the most essential of information. Here is what I picked up about the characters and how I felt about them:

> Karate kids

Cut these names. It was very overwhelming to me, because naming these kids makes them seem important. My brain tried to pick up all information on them, which wasn’t necessary at all, since they only serve to set up the theme/main issue for later.

> Dave

Dave is described here as warm and capable. Now, if Jeremy sees him as his mentor, I understand why. However, in part two and three, he seems a lot more like some drug addict than a disciplined karate master to look up to. I understand that he pretends in class, but the contrast seems a bit too big for me. Either make him more of an asshole/out of control in class or make him less likable out of class. “What would Dave have done to get the point across if all of them had been like Flynn?  He would have found a way.  He always did.” I found this a beautiful way of showing the Jeremy looks up to Dave.

> Jeremy

Protagonist (although this only really became clear to me halfway through part 1) and friend of Dave. Works as his bodyguard (why can’t a karate master defend himself? Jeremy doesn’t seem to carry a gun, while Dave does. In part 2 (and/or 3) he gets a bit of backstory. I liked this, but it felt a bit shoehorned in. (The narration is supposed to be Jeremy, so it’s a bit weird that he askes himself about his parents.)

> Paul

Friend of Dave. Deals drugs. The line “I told her what an asshole you are,” was quite funny to me. I don’t think it would do harm if you added more of these lines.

> Tamara

Not liked by Jeremy. Pauls girlfriend, apparently. Mentioned in part 1 and 2, but only appears in part 3. She is, in my opinion, completely redundant. She can be cut out of the story and nothing would change. Switch the rape around to Jeremy having a fight with Paul and there you go. I am also absolutely disgusted by the description of her ‘nasal voice’, I guess that serves it purpose well, haha.

> Roxanne

Friend of Paul. Later a whore. Her conversation with Jeremy is a bit weird. I’ll get back to this. I liked how your descriptions made her seem very trashy (make-up, long nails, etc.)

> Josiah, Dakotah, and TaylorThese are only mentioned in part 3 and serve no purpose. Cut.

Arcs

Since I just went over all the characters, I’ll keep this short. First I’d like to say that I like Jeremy’s arc, although it would benefit from a stronger conclusion.

Secondly, I’m quite confused by Dave’s arc. It’s all over the place. Sometimes he’s a mentor, sometimes he’s more like Paul. Try balancing this out. In part one he’s shown as kind and friendly to the kids. At the drug deal, Jeremy remarks the following: “It amazed him how much someone’s personality could change when shown a little flattery.” This confused me a lot. How did he change? Why did he change because of it? He seemed nice earlier?

Plot

Here’s a small advantage that I read part 3 first. I think you did a good job setting up the whole courage thing. I also liked that you made David’s ‘no courage without fear’ mantra come back in part 3. The ending felt a bit weak to me, however. I think this is mainly because the story is about Jeremy, but he didn’t have a ‘final moment’. The closest is the moment where he tells David it’s him or Paul, but the story goes on after that. It somewhat has a happy ending, but I feel like the ending would be stronger if Jeremy made the decision that he had enough of his shit and just left Dave. He’s his mentor, but doesn’t seem like a great influence to me.

Perhaps you could end on an even stronger note. Dave (or Paul) threatening Jeremy to stay (with a loaded gun.) Jeremy leaves anyway and says “there is no courage without fear”.

I liked how you showed progression in his arc by him rejecting Roxanne.

As I said before, I think Tamara can be completely left out. Her raping Jeremy does not progress his arc or the plot. It only serves to ‘have a reason’ to kick Paul and Tamara out.

3
Arowulf_Trygvesen•

(2/2)

Pacing

Another reason the ending didn’t work for me is because there’s a lot of redundant stuff just before it. Him thinking about the tv and counting the ceiling tiles can all be cut. The same thing happened at the end of part 2. You had created quite a nice moment, which would make for an excellent point to cut the story in half. It was spoiled by 2 more paragraphs. I think it should’ve ended at “I love you too”.Cutting redundant stuff is the thing that would improve your story the most. I think you might be able to get it from 6k to 4-4,5k easily. Cut Tamara, cut the whore outside, cut (part of) the karate class, cut names, cut redundant descriptions, cut, cut, cut.The story you’re going for is a short story. That means you only have a limited word count. You need to be absolutely ruthless when it comes to cutting redundant stuff. Roxanne description: good – shows Jeremy is repulsed by her. Ceiling tiles description: not good – no purpose. I remember at one point there is a paragraph about how nothing happened. I know it hurts, but cutting redundancy will greatly improve the pacing, plot and descriptions. 

​

Descriptions

As mentioned before, I think you underdescribe some things, while overdescribing others. I won’t spend too much time on this, but try balancing it out. Give all descriptions meaning, but do try to describe more things. You did an excellent job at this when describing Roxanne. Her distorted face and stuff make it clear that Jeremy is repulsed by her.I do think the descriptions in part 3 were better than those in part 1 and 2.Sometimes you rely on telling a bit too much. This can be Jeremy summarising a conversation, but also telling about character history/traits. If it’s too long to show, it might be redundant.Some descriptions fell flat on me. Especially the analogies. “The amber liquid glided down his throat” is probably the worst sentence in the story. I see what you tried to do, but to add descriptions you should describe things that matter, not unnecessarily overcomplicate the description of things that don’t. This specific sentence is more of an exception than the rule, but it could come straight out of r/writingcirclejerk.Telling isn’t always bad though, and is often more efficient than showing, when used correctly. “Being third in line with some bleach blond whore wasn’t exactly how he pictured losing his virginity.” Is a great example of you subtly telling something that will come into play later. The reason this works is because it does two things: telling something and showing Jeremy’s feelings about what’s about to happen. Good job.

​

Dialogue

I felt like there was some good dialogue and some that was a little… mechanical? I liked the discussion between Paul and Dave about the coke a lot. It showed character and it flowed well. There was action and tension. A textbook example of good conflict.Sometimes a conversation feels fake. An example is the one between Roxanne and Jeremy. They are talking about how he’s a virgin and she suddenly goes “Jesus, you really are young.  What are you 17?” Ichuckled a bit here, because in my head it sounded a bit like Skyrim dialogue. I know stuff like this can happen in real conversations, but on paper it’s unrealistic. Remember that dialogue has the goal to imitate a real conversation, but it’s not the same.Also, re-check the dialogue tags. On a few occasions it’s unclear who says what (only happens once or twice). Laughed, chuckled, cackled, sighed, etc. are NOT dialogue tags. You can say something, but you can’t laugh something. You can whisper something, but you can’t cackle something. See what I mean? Another example: “a slurred female voice said.” The lady said it. Not the voice.At some points I felt that the dialogue was a bit repetitive/redundant. Paul tells Jeremy he get’s his ass whooped if he tells Tamara. Jeremy agrees, after which Paul says “Like I said, you better not.” Another example is  “Wow, she’s a wild one,” Dave said. “You’ll see for yourself here in a little bit.” This feels weird, because the second part is not something someone would say in real life. ““Wow, she’s a wild one,” said Dave, wiping the sweat off his forehead.” will suffice. 

​

Tension

You did an amazing job at building tension. Even though I knew he would survive, I feared for Jeremy’s life at the roulette game. You even managed to make me think ‘wait what’ when everything went black.My compliments.I also really liked how you upped the tension at the roulette game by them threatening to put in a second bullet if he doesn’t play.

​

Random thoughts

Who is Rosie and what is a Gemini? It might be a translation thing (am not a native speaker) but I was only able to find the zodiac sign. I’m so confused haha.Why is Jeremy not angry about the rape? He lets Dave know later, but doesn’t do anything when Tamara taunts him with it in the morning. “What would she say if she knew he had been a virgin?” Really? That’s the first thing he thinks about? I would be angry, furious even. That doesn’t mean he has to attack her or something, but he can start an argument about consent, slam a door, anything!Another one of these is when Paul takes the revolver to play roulette. Jeremy balls his hands into fists (which sounds weird) and thinks about who’s clean up the mess. I’m not sure that’s the thing someone like Jeremy would worry about at that moment.Roxanne is at one point described to study Jeremy as: “She moved them over him like an artist deciding which part of the model to draw first.” Now, there’s nothing wrong with this description, but since she was earlier portrayed as trashy and repulsive, I’m having trouble picturing her as an elegant artist studying an object.I noticed you have double spaces after every sentence. Is there a reason to this?Why does Jeremy feel weird seeing Dave with a woman? He didn’t feel weird when he did drugs.The scene where Jeremy gives a prostitute 20$ feels weird and redundant. It doesn’t really have a purpose. Also, why is she disappointed? I would think she’d just be like ‘eh free money’I was very confused after the roulette scene. Later it became clear Dave did it to show Jeremy fear so he’d develop his courage, but it didn’t seem like something a mentor would do. Perhaps foreshadowit a bit more?Some of Jeremy’s thoughts were unspecific and confusing. Some were a little cringy. Example: “Dave’s choice of words… first time.  So what had happened between them… didn’t really count?  It was one of those questions he had always been afraid to ask.  But now he had his answer.” It feels a bit like the realisation of a YA character to me. Perhaps you can edit this a bit.

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Final thoughts

Alright, I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings too much. The most important things you can do to lift this story to a higher level are cutting redundancy, make Dave consistent and make Jeremy more activein the ending.This critique got a bit out of hand, and although I ended up writing a critique about half as long as the entire story, it isn’t as bad as I make it seem to be. At no point did I feel bored or irritated by the character’s decisions. The prose lacked some descriptions, but I was never confused when scenes changed location or time.I think you did a good job of laying the foundations for a good plot, considering the great size of this story. I wish you the best of luck editing this one and writing the next one. Keep writing!

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-Arowulf

3
ValkraneOPAnd there behind him stood 7 Nijas holding kittens...•

It's practically impossible to hurt my feelings when critiquing my writing. Even if you said, "Hey your story sucks and you're a talentless hack of a writer." I would just take it as an opinion you're entitled to. You took the time to read my work and give your opinion, for free. If you went line by line telling me all the reasons this story sucks, I wouldn't be even the slightest bit upset, hurt or pissed. Because in the end it's going to help me get better. I graduated from art school. Art school professors are notoriously brutal when critiquing students. Their reason for this is, if you can't handle the criticism of a professor, then you will never be able to handle the criticism of the real world.

The worst feedback is when someone reads my stuff and just says, "I liked it." This is why I rarely let friends read my work anymore.

I can't really say what was going through my head when I used the term sexual assault. I am a sexual assault survivor. So, I am not unfamiliar with the difference. What happens in this story is definitely rape. When I posted the first draft I remember one person was like, "Well I don't understand why he would go to the cops. Nothing illegal happened." Or something like that. I just remember thinking, Since when is it legal to rape someone? Female on male doesn't make it any different.

I had to laugh a little about your mention of brand names since when I posted part two there was so much discussion in the comments about the use of the term Colt when describing the gun.

Jeremy isn't actually Dave's bodyguard. That comment was sarcastic. These two buff ex-military dudes are there, one is a martial arts master... and they have this skinny teenager with them. It was Dave trying to be funny. I realize there isn't much description here of what they look like. But this is also not the first story in the series. They are described in previous stories. I don't expect you to know that by osmosis though.

I'm glad my descriptions of Tamera were disgusting. She IS disgusting. I won't cut her out, though. The rape scene stays. It's not because I'm a sadist who likes to torture my characters. It just explains a lot later on down the line when Jeremy is an adult and doing some really fucked up things. It's also a good contrast after the scene with Roxanne. he turns Roxanne down because he's not ready to lose his virginity. But then it's taken from him anyway. It's like no matter what happens, he doesn't feel like he has any choice in it.

Dave being all over the place is kind of intentional. He's basically a psychopath. He can be whatever he needs to be when he needs to be it. In class he's the kind, warm teacher. With Roxanne he's suave and flirtatious. With Paul he's the brother figure. But he's basically raising Jeremy, and so Jeremy sees all these sides to him, even the raging psycho, and never knows quite what to expect.

The ending here isn't the ending to the whole series. Otherwise, Jeremy leaving while at gunpoint, etc would be awesome. But then the whole rest of the series wouldn't happen.

I agree, there is a lot here that can be cut. I am a minimalist. I like saying what I need to say in as few words as possible.

Rosie is the drunk girl outside who offered to give Jeremy a BJ for cab fare. The Gemini is the name of the bar across the street. I'm actually glad you asked about that. No one else has caught it. Tamera gave him Special K, which is really strong. So when the rape is happening he's so out of it he doesn't even know who's doing it. He just remembers the girl outside and thinks it's her. She was a big girl. Tamera is a big girl. It's just showing how out of it he is because of the drugs.

He is angry about the rape. He just keeps it inside. The next morning when she is taunting him he's still just really confused.

I would say Jeremy feels weird seeing Dace with a woman because it's something that he hasn't seen before. I know it isn't glaringly obvious in this story, but the two of them are sexually involved with each other. Even at the end... It's left open to interpretation. Like is Dave crawling into bed with him to comfort him, or is he crawling into bed to fuck him?

Rosie isn't actually a prostitute. She's a drunk who is literally just trying to get cab fare. He gives her the $20 and doesn't accept her payment because he's compassionate and just being nice.

I tried to answer all the questions you asked. And this was actually a really good exercise for me, because if all these things aren't evident to the reader, it's up to me to make them evident.

Thank you so much for your time and effort. This has given me a lot to think about. There is a story I posted recently called Driving Graveyard that is also a part of this series but takes place a lot later on the timeline, if you are curious and feel like checking it out. Seriously, thank you.

Cheers.

1
volch-devz•

Hey, I read your piece. Here are some of my observations, but please excuse me for not reading the parts before this one. I'll take into account that your story was shortened (cut details) in order to be posted here. And also, this is my first time posting a "critic", so I hope I don't screw it up.

General Remarks:

As I was reading it, I could see some hints of an interesting story with a fair quantity of drama, but a greater amount of interpersonal conflicts. I don't know if that was your intention, but finding more about the characters, how they interact with each other, and the consequences of their actions could easily generate an interesting story about overcoming trauma (possibly?)

Mechanics, grammar and spelling: I honestly skipped them since I focused more on the overall plot, characters and structure; but please proofread your writing before posting. The "Yea," for example.

Setting & Staging

I felt lost in several parts.

The start: there are some students sparring, Dave gets punched, Paul is upstairs in the kitchen... and then they're in a kitchen, and there are some rooms somewhere. The stage is unclear, foggy. It might not be so important, but setting the scenario would clarify different concepts.

I felt Roxanne was some sort of a mother figure, or someone who takes care of them, maybe a lover, a wife, a roommate; but she's a prostitute. So, is Dave running a brothel on top of his Dojo? How? That remains unclear. If he does some sort of obscure business up there, how does that affect Jeremy? Is he your main character?

If they are waiting for a prostitute, something in their behavior should warn us about it. For example: "Roxanne, called, she's nearby," said Dave. Paul checked the condoms he had in his pocket, and placed two on Jeremy's hand," or something like that. A description that tell us what their moods are: excited, anxious, calm, desperate, etc. If Jeremy was a virgin, shouldn't he had been more nervous? Was he being forced by Dave or Paul? How can we know, based on a description, how he feels about this endeavor?

The beer was a hint, but it came later rather than sooner.

When Roxanne goes into Jeremy's room, I feel I need more information with her interacting with his belongings, maybe asking him questions about some objects there; questions he would answer dryly (I guess, because he's nervous and wants this to be over).

The Tamera portion was completely unexpected. I might have seen how it fits into the overall plot, but, many questions come to my mind regarding her purpose.

Characters

I hate Tamera, period. (but don't remove her. Is she your antagonist? Maybe she should be.)

Dave. Is he a father figure? A hero? A savior? A sage? I have learned in my life that the kind of parent who makes their child have sex with a prostitute falls into a very specific personality category, like, they tend to see women as objects that make their sons become men... or something like that. They value rigid standars. This guy practices some form of a full contact sport (I'm guessing), so he might be the disciplinary, sturdy, stubborn kind. There's nothing wrong with them being paternal, but... the final part, why act like that with someone who isn't their child? This opens up several possibilities for Dave as a character.

Paul. Is he someone's sibling? There is an insteresting sentence that gave me an idea of what kind of relationship they have:

“And I’ll make sure you don’t have your fucking nunchucks this time.  My shoulder still hurts.”

So, is there a rivalry between them? How does Dave behave towards Paul in comparison to Jeremy?

Also,

Tools could mean anything when Paul was involved.

I can interprete this portion in a multitude of ways, most are not good, but I liked that sentence being there. Actually, I feel it would have worked better in dialogue rather than in description as it tells more about the perception Jeremy has of him. Is Jeremy afraid of Paul? If so, I feel I need to read more about Paul being some sort of a destructive idiot or something like it, to clarify his role in the story.

Finally, Tamera and Paul's relationship: how toxic is it? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of two people destroying everything around them because they're unable to communicate properly. They can become the catalysts for key plot points perhaps (?)

Roxanne. Is she in love with Jeremy? Why does she act so motherly all of a sudden with him, once he had rejected her? (Showing pictures of her daughters, their age and some medical details). That's intimate, personal information. She even feels hurt because of his rejection. Could she have an interest in Jeremy beyond their ordeal? She and Dave, how does that work? If she is not important for your overall story, then you can just leave her there. But if she is of substance for something in the future, make her interaction with the boys more crucial for the plot (reveal/hint a secret or trigger a character's inner conflict).

Jeremy. From what I read, this guy can go into several directions. I am not sure what kind of story you want to tell, though, I'm leaning towards him resenting rejection, feeling lonely and vulnerable or something like that. He's a natural black belt, but why? What are his motivations? Has he been abused before?

He's shapeless in my mind since there are no descriptions in this part. Also, I feel that more details of him interacting with the environment are needed in order to have a clear view of him as a person.

Plot

Since I haven't read the previous parts, I'm not sure how this portion connects those previous two together. There are some holes in your plot in regards to your characters as I described before, but also, the Roxanne part, and the Tamera part, seem disconnected except for having Jeremy placed there. For me it is hard to tell where the story is heading based on only what I read, all I can do is predict. Now, my question is: What kind of conflict do you have in mind? (Jeremy vs Dave, Paul, Tamera, or is it Jeremy vs the idea of him not being incapable to stand up for himself?)

POV, Description, Dialogue and Pacing

In terms of pacing: it went fast. I got the gist but it sacrificed most descriptive elements. You got some points on the dialogues though, but more are needed. Most points of the story would do well in dialogue, but don't forget to provide clues on how the characters feel, rather than tell how they do, by describing them.

Jeremy as the protagonist and POV (which is limited to him) requieres to give us more information in order for us to understand his surroundings/circumstance. I'd like him delivering key information on dialogues [maybe add a best friend/love interest/ a character that works as an exposition dump (?) to whom he can express his grievances, triumphs and secrets.]

Sometimes, one falls in love with one piece of writing, and we don't want to remove it because it works in our perspective. But you might want/need to reconsider the efficacy of some parts. Therefore, I humbly hope my notes help you in that matter.

1
ValkraneOPAnd there behind him stood 7 Nijas holding kittens...•

Without reading parts 1 and 2 I can see why you're confused. That's fine though. This is a long story and not everyone has time to go back and read the whole thing. But here is the basic rundown. In part 1 Dave and Jeremy are closing up the Dojo when Paul (Who is Dave's friend and their roommate) shows up and the three of them go to a seedy apartment building to buy drugs. Paul goes inside to make the deal and he comes out with Roxanne. He introduces her to Dave and Jeremy. She flirts with all three of them, and they leave. Back at the apartment, Paul and Dave are all coked out and Paul thinks Dave didn't divide the coke evenly between them. This results in a game of Russian roulette that Jeremy is forced to participate in against his will. This is the basic plot up until now. There are other things, but this gives you an idea of what happened before this.

So, to answer your questions... They live in an apartment above the Dojo.
No, Dave isn't running a brothel.

I'm glad you hate Tamera. I would be disturbed if anyone reading this didn't hate her. For this part of the story, she is the antagonist. But this whole series has multiple antagonists. There are even parts later on down the lone where Jeremy is the antagonist.

Dave is a father figure. He's also a mentor and Jeremy's boss. But the relationship is pretty abusive really. Dave is really manipulative and he's also a sexual predator.
Paul and Dave are good friends. They aren't brothers. The thing about the nunchucks was referring to something earlier in the story. The night they played Russian roulette there was an altercation between all three of them and Jeremy hit Paul with them. Paul and Tamera's relationship is really toxic. The fact that they started out with him cheating on someone else with her. He goes behind her back and screws prostitutes. Just that fact that when Paul finds out what she did to Jeremy his reaction is "How could you do this to me?" The fact that she committed rape is just not even an issue for him. That should say what kind of people they both are.

Roxanne isn't in love with Jeremy. This is only the second time she's ever met him. She's definitely attracted to him, but not in love. Her acting motherly is just part of who she is. The image she projects to the world is a bleach blond sex worker, but really she's just trying to survive like everyone else, and raising two kids. At that point, she just realizes he's not ready for this and she's nice about it. (Though his virginity is up for debate, because he's been with Dave.) Plus, she's also talking to him so some time passes and they can pretend they slept together just so he won't be embarrassed in front of Dave and Paul. As far as her and Dave, this is also only the second time they've met. Dave is just a John to her. He paid her for sex.

Jeremy has been abused before. He went to live with Dave because his home life was so bad.

Anyway, hope this clears up a few things. Thanks for your feedback.

1
Tomato_potato_•

Now I have read the section with Tamara before, and in that draft I felt that one of the strongest issues was that it was preceded by the Russian roulette game, and these two scenes did not go together well. This time, it’s preceded by a scene with Roxanne. Now, I think that this is a step in the right direction, but the Tamara section still isn’t where it needs to be. However, first I want to address the Roxxanne section.

I actually think the Roxxanne scene is the best section I have read thus far, or at least I enjoyed it the most. I think it might be because I expected the worst from this woman, and to have her not be a complete piece of shit was a nice touch. However, there are a few issues. The smaller one, in my opinion is this line:

“She told him about how her oldest daughter wants to be a ballerina and how her youngest has ADHD and her meds are really expensive. She asked him about his family, and about Dave.”

Honestly, I thought they were having a conversation that flowed nicely, and I think it should have continued. I was genuinely disappointed to read this line, because I would have liked to have read it coming from Roxxanne’s lips. It’s revealing information and having it come directly from the character that the information concerns could lead to a potent moment. I think you should continue to explore the conversation from this line.

My other issue concerns this line:

“Dave’s choice of words… first time. So what had happened between them… didn’t really count? It was one of those questions he had always been afraid to ask. But now he had his answer.”

Nope, there is no way. There is no way that Jeremy would not know whether or not he had been raped by Dave. I mean, I guess it's just implied, and without knowing what happened between them I cannot know, but if it involved penetrative sex at all there is absolutely zero chance that Dave would not understand what had happened to him. Think about it, he is about to have sex for the “first” time with Roxxanne, and he already understand enough to bring his experience with Dave into question here. There is know way he would be still wondering about what had happened between them.

The only way this situation might be possible would be if Dave had raised Jeremy since he was a young boy, and kept his contact with the outside world to a minimum. But that is not what happened here. If any kind of sexual activity happened between them, Dave understands what is happening. You might be able to make it work if Jeremy lives in some kind of extreme denial of what is happening. But then, I would question why he denies what is happening between him and Dave and yet he fully grasps what is occurring between him and Tamara.

And that's another problem with this line. Whether he denies it or not, it kind of steals the thunder from the scene with Tamara. Why is the scene with Tamra such a big deal, when it is clearly happening with Dave already? I know from what you said that Dave’s relationship with Jeremy eventually involves him taking sexual advantage of the kid, but the manner in which it is brought up makes Tamara’s rape of him seem redundant. Or at least gratuitously unnecessary. Since this incident forces Paul and Tamara out of the apartment and isolates Jeremy and Dave together, maybe Dave’s abuse should be after this happens? No matter what though, I don’t think you can get away with making it seem like Jeremy doesn’t understand what has happened to him. Not at age 16.

As for the second section with Tamara, while having the Roxxanne sequence precede it is better than having the Russian roulette scene, at least thematically, I still don’t really feel that this scene has been earned. Tamara is just such an abrupt and random character and this scene happens incredibly fast. I’m not sure if other people would have a problem, but the way its wrapped up is seriously quick. The rape occurs, then we flash to him waking up and talking to Tamara and then talking to Dave and then Dave yelling at Paul and Tamara and then kicking them out.

To me, a whole lot happens within the space of a few paragraphs and I would prefer that everything be spaced out. However, if you prefer to keep everything brief, then I think you would be greatly aided by a few transitory sentences placed in the right areas. A line that properly moves the story to another location or time so that the reader is able to follow along. Earlier in this critique, I criticized a line in which a conversation was reduced to the narrator describing what took place. Well, this is the time for a line like that.

For example we have this sequence:

“Dave sat down across from him. “Tell me what happened.”

*****

Laying on his bed, he listened to the shouting between the three of them. “He’s my fucking responsibility! I let you two stay here and this is what happens!””

Maybe just add a few lines like:

“Dave sat down across from him. “Tell me what happened.”

And so Jeremy did.

*****

A few hours later, Paul and Tamara returned from whatever degenerate escapade they had set off on.

Dave was waiting for them

Jeremy laid in his bed, curled like a ball, as Dave roared from the living room. “He’s my fucking responsibility! I let you two stay here and this is what happens!””

Just a few lines here and there that help conclude each scene and begin a new one. If your going to be brief, then every sentence and word you use needs to lift its own weight in telling the story. So, when you are transitioning between scenes, make sure the words that are doing the transition are the ones that ought to be there.

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ValkraneOPAnd there behind him stood 7 Nijas holding kittens...•

I could extend the conversation in the bedroom. I cut it short like I did because I thought maybe the dialogue was going on too long. Tarantino makes long dialogue scenes work, but I'm always afraid of using too much. Plus it's different on paper than on film, lol.

Other than Jeremy, Roxanne is the only likable character, I think. At first she comes across as this skanky hooker. But then you find out she has kids to support, etc.

The whole 'first time' thing... I was actually on the fence about this myself. I wrote it, deleted it, rewrote it, etc. Since this is still an early draft I only left it because I wanted to see what people said about it. I do think I'm going to get rid of it and make it so the sexual stuff between him and Dave hasn't started yet. Another story I wrote in this series called Flesh Fly takes place about a year after this one, and in that story there is sexual contact between him and Dave. I didn't go into tons of details describing it, but it's there.

But if him and Dave were involved that way at this point... It's not that he doesn't understand what sex is, etc. It's more that people seem to have this idea that gay experiences don't count. Idk... it could just be a thing in my part of the world. An ex of mine was Bi. And the first time he ever had sex was with another guy. But he insisted that he was still a virgin after that and it didn't count until he had done it with a woman. I don't know... I'm Bisexual also and it doesn't make a ton of sense. So that's more what I was getting at. Like he thinks anything between him and Dave doesn't really count because Dave is male.

And then at the very end when Dave crawls into bed with him. It's not really clear whether it's to comfort him or to do something else. He is definitely being groomed in this story, for sure.

And you're right... it does take any significance away from what happens with Tamera. And once Paul and Tamera move out, the two of them are there alone, so nothing is stopping Dave then.

I agree the ending is rushed. It does need to be fleshed out more. Even if just by some small additions like you suggested.

Thank you so much for your feedback, seriously. I love that so many people have read all three parts and provided feedback for the whole thing. I'm really grateful for all of it. :)

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