Hey all, just an FYI to be aware there's one of Portland Police's lovely speed camera vans parked at the east end of the eastbound Morrison Bridge, where the connector from the southbound I-5 exit meets the bridge.
I haven't been that way in a while, but I saw it about 9:30 PM tonight so I thought I'd put everyone on the lookout.
Have a lovely day!
Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:11 AM UTC
There is a well established correlation between speeding and serious injuries and/or fatal accidents. So yeah, the speed trap isn't there to punish you... it's there to keep you from killing someone. So don't fucking speed.
CITATION NEEDED: http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/enforcement/pdf/809839.pdf
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When you think about how well the social contract works when applied to driving it's amazing. The simple fact that every morning tens of thousands of people are hurtling along on Portland streets in sheet metal boxes filled with highly explosive liquids on rain slick concrete surfaces and almost everybody survives the experience. Individual people make that happen because of enlighten self interest not because of a fear of getting a ticket. Traffic tickets are just revenue generators.
The survivability rate has more to do with governmental regulations in regards to seat belts, crumple zones, et al than the supposed enlightened self-interest of the population (I doubt the enlightened part, not the self-interest part).
Sure safer car save lives but the sheer act of moving around in that much steel at these speeds and doing it everyday with the reasonable expectation of survival blows my mind.
Every day people get behind the wheel drunk and kill themselves or other people. Not so enlightening...
But think about how few. In say, Los Angeles, 3,000,000 people get on the freeway every day and less than a handful die. That's an incredibly small percentage of the total, approaching perfection even. What other human activity even comes close to that? Maybe only aircraft travel in the US produces less casualty per mile/per passenger. Maybe your looking into the wrong end of the telescope, so to speak.
so do you support jail time for speeders? there is certainly a correlation between failing to signal, cell phone usage, and running red lights or stop signs. should we save lives by instituting jail time for these offenses as well? smoking kills. jail?
how serious are you about saving lives? are you willing to walk the walk, or just being self-righteous for the hell of it?
It's not a speed trap if you don't speed.
it's not a fascist checkpoint if you have all your papers handy!
Godwinner!
actually i was referring to spanish fascists.
So Francorous!
And traffic court is literally no different than Stalin's gulags.
police departments using enforcement of arbitrary speed laws as a mechanism to raise revenue and go fishing for probable cause is no joke.
There's nothing fascist about obeying speed limits. Do you even know what the word fascist means? How old are you? Let me guess, you're 16? 17? 12?
Speeding in town is one of the most careless and stupid things you can do behind the wheel. Not only do you risk your safety and the safety of others in an environment where you often have very little time to react, YOU DON"T GET THERE ANY FASTER. That's right, the only thing you accomplish by driving like an asshole is driving like an asshole.
The only way speeding gets you anywhere quicker is if you can increase your average speed for a significant amount of time. Driving to Pendleton? Driving 75 rather than 65 will save you around 30 minutes.
Here's a little experiment for you. If you have a route you regularly drive that includes urban Portland, drive like the asshole you seem to want to be and time it. Then drive the same route at the same time like an adult and time it. Tell me the difference in time is worth what you risk.
Thank you, sir or madam, for your condescending, profanity-strewn tirade about how we should all behave like adults.
My pleasure. If you can think of a better way to address someone who thinks our police are "fascists" and that speeding in town is a good idea, I'm all ears.
Speeding isn't dangerous. Driving faster or slower than the flow of traffic is dangerous. Speed limits that are below what the natural flow of traffic would be actually increase accident rates because there are always a minority of people who will obey speed limits without thought, and then they're slower than the majority which is dangerous.
Speed cameras are about revenue generation, not about safety.
This is spot on. I got a 300 dollar ticket for going 45mph on soutbound 99E at SE Division, where it is still 35 and a construction zone. Total bullshit as I was going the same speed as everyone else and it's not like there were construction workers on the road because it was a Sunday evening.
Cop told me I was lucky he didn't double the fine because I was in a construction zone.
I don't think red light cameras or speed trap vans make anything safer, I do agree that speeding in town will not make your trip any faster.
Like this asshole on Powell the other day that kept riding my ass, weaving in and out, then I would catch up to him at the next signal, and then chuckle at his misfortune as he fumed because there were other cars on the road.
More or less my point.
Yikes! Deep breath, Portland friend. Your analysis of the mathematics and ethical implications of speeding is spot on, but doubleherpes' comment boils down to "fuck the po-lice", which is also spot on and has the added benefit of humorous godwinning. There's no need for name calling in this instance.
No no no doubleherpes must be 12 because speeding is bad. It's logical because finger-shaking.
Fuck the police is not spot on when I'm riding my motorcycle and some asshole (and if you speed in town, that's what you are) speeds through a stop sign, or (as has happened) some asshole can't break in time to avoid hitting a pedestrian. People get killed this way, and it's unforgivable that people behave this way when there is absolutely nothing to be gained by it.
No, but there is something fascist about private corporations lobbying for new laws and having their auto-enforcement systems put in place to police the citizens; all for a tidy profit.
That blending of state and corporate is the very definition of fascist, so maybe it is quite applicable in this case.
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I also don't care about getting places on time, might have a lot to do with it.
Maybe you're just a Portland driver. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a point of view.)
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wow that sounds really dangerous! then certainly you support jail time for us brutes that endanger society. and since you're such a moral person i just know you're on your way to your local police station to turn in your car keys for that one time you went one mile an hour over the limit.
Wow, that's a really persuasive argument. Between this and your vice like grip of the totalitarian fascist state we live in, I find myself humbled.
Listen, I know there's no reasoning with someone like you, so I'll just ask that you remember this is conversation when someone driving in the manner you're defending kills or injures you or someone you love, or when you do it to someone else.
fuck your time test
But speeding is fun, economical, and safe.
Plus we're making good time, here!
That's a pretty common trap there, they usually even put a sign up saying 'photo radar enforced' before you approach it. In general, just don't speed there! the more you know
They are supposed to put those signs up.
Hey thanks.
damn shut down the Morrison!
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Well, I was driving at the time, and using a camera while driving would be an unsafe practice.
What's the moral difference that makes us upvote this post while we berate warnings about MAX fare inspectors? (I'm not saying I'm sure there is no difference. I just can't name it if there is one.)
Without trying to explain why or trying to find a valid reason for it, I think most people would think that speeding (slightly) is a much lesser offense than actively stealing a ride on MAX. I'm not saying that's morally correct, but a majority of people probably think that way.
Good question.
I suppose speeding doesn't threaten the very existence and operation of roads, while skipping fares does do that for transit.
No, but speeding can threaten the very existence of a person. If you don't have enough time to slow down, you could maul a pedestrian or another vehicle.
I will say, there aren't too many pedestrians trying to cross the "street" on the bridge, and if they are - they're breaking the law as well. But it can happen none the less.
More accurate assessment.
I don't think it's even a go-ahead for speeding when the van isn't there. It's gentle encouragement to slow down in this area b/c there are repercussions. win-win. No speeding, no tickets.