No Knock warrants are a threat to every gun owner.
mprnews.org/story/2022/04/06/amir-locke-prose...Posted Apr 6, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC
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No knocks are a threat to everyone on both sides of the door.
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They need to be much more threatening to the exterior side
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Every gun owner should be a threat to no knock warrants
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[deleted]
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Anyone who thinks its a burglar/home invasion.
Edit
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It literally is a home invasion.
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The guy i responded to doesnt see it as that
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But who's dumb enough to make a sudden movement when you think your house is being broken into?? Thats ridiculous!
When black clad goons are breaking into your home in the middle of the night, waking you from a dead sleep, you don't reach for the gun slowly.
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No knock warrants should not exist......
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Many "Swatting" events a basically the same as No Knock warrants. You don't even have to have done something criminal to get that type of attention.
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Yep, no knocks are a threat to everyone. Pro gun, anti gun, pro weed, anti weed, Muslim, atheist, pro life or pro choice. This shouldn't be something really anyone disagrees with if they support basic human rights.
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Agreed
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"Under the new rules, police would have to wait 20 seconds before entering during the daytime and 30 seconds for nighttime searches."
*taps his fingers gently on the door, whispers, "Police, search warrant" Stares at his watch for 30 seconds. Blasts down the door and ventilates the first American-shaped silhouette to make a sudden move.
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ventilates the first American-shaped silhouette
to make a sudden move.
"He was concealing his hands under the bedsheets, I had to assume he had a weapon, there's no other reason he'd be in his own bed at 2 am."
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Real shame about that mannequin full of tannerite in my front hallway.
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These tannerite ideas are making me chuckle.
From the hinges, to the dog, to the mannequin.. the resulting drastic pressure changes in an enclosed area isn't good for anyone.
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Unmanned forced entry protection devices should be legal. CMV
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I tend to agree but have my reservations - what happens when the fire department needs to force entry to rescue people who have passed out from smoke inhalation or something like that?
I'd rather just ban police from no-knock raids and prosecute them if they do it anyway.
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My privately operated fire protection service agency (as well as friends and family) have access to the pin necessary to disarm my "security system".
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I agree, but unfortunately those get you no knocked, or in Duncan Lemp’s case, shot through your window.
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Fine then. Unmanned whole property perimeter protection systems should be legal. You win.
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Idk what I’m winning friend. I can’t legally own an unmanned whole property perimeter protection system.
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No, it could harm a first responder.
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Apparently people think the only first responders are police officers. Bummer :/
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I'll make sure the fire dept has a map of the mine field if you pinky promise not to share it with the fuzz.
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I am a total loss, can you explain what that means in this context?
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Even those that don't own guns yet
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If plain clothes police officers break into your home to serve a no-knock and you manage to kill all of them, because you didn't know they were police officers.
How much murder would they charge you with?
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Lots.
How much murder would they convict you of? Depends on what state you're in and the other details of the case.
A couple more cases like Amir Locke and juries will start accepting "I saw a cop, that's clearly a deadly threat, so it's self defense".
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At this stage in the game - how does yelling "police" as the kick your down in guns drawn hold up as "we identified ourselves"?
If you don't ring my doorbell and give me an opportunity to see who you are, you're a home invasion that's just coming in hot and trying to abuse the situation.
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Well, if they're throwing flashbangs in at the same time and kicking up a ruckus, there clearly isn't any reasonable time to confirm their identity. Anyone can shout a word, that doesn't mean anything. And if I'm asleep/deaf from the intrusion, I probably ain't even going to register it.
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Exactly. They pop into someone's house, by the time people really understand what's going on there's a guy pointing a gun at you and you're still half asleep.
Now, when that fight or flight kicks in - somethings going to go sideways.
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Better to be tried by 12 than be carried by 6 I say. It's your word of self-defense against dead men.
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You think you would survive the ride to jail after killing cops in a no knock raid? Thats if they dont beat the living shit out of you first.
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Wrong! No knock warrants are a threat to everyone.
Remember, the police can and will open fire, then they all stand shoulder to shoulder and lie through their teeth about how it looked like you might be armed.
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Exactly. Executing no-knock warrants in the dark, in the middle of the night - even an unarmed innocent is harder to discern even for a well meaning police officer, and even regular citizens have been able to use self-defense claims for being confused as to what was coming at them.
While it has even more concern for gun owners, no-knock warrants should concern everyone, as no one is immune from scared reactions from police with guns.
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The solution to this problem is surprisingly simple: No-knock entries must be classified as a use of lethal force. Personally, I think that happened when states adopted "Castle Doctrine". But, since the courts don't seem to agree with my logic, I think state legislatures need to step up and declare it.
Lethal force can only be justified in defense against a credible, criminal, imminent, threat of death or grievous bodily harm, and only when necessary to stop that threat. That's it. The law is the same for cops as it is for everyone else. By acknowledging that no-knock entries are a use of lethal force, they are automatically banned in all cases involving a warrant. If there is time to get a warrant, the threat is not sufficiently imminent to justify a no-knock entry.
They are only acceptable in exigent circumstances, where a person is in imminent danger.
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Yes, the proper wording should be no knock warrants should not exist. We can accept that there are times that highly trained teams may need to enter a residence unannounced. It should NEVER be to search for something. Evidence or person. The immediate threat to human life should be the sole reason, in which case there would be no need for a warrant.
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If i were a home intruder id definitely be yelling about how im law enforcement.
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"STAY BACK, I'M ARMED. SHOW YOUR WARRANT."
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Im not revealing where i am. Castle doctrine dictates i have no duty to retreat. If a stranger enters my home violently i will respond in kind.
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Cameras with speakers are pretty spiffy.
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I really dont mean to be argumentative but do you really expect the average gun owner to have a camera with speakers and good enough wifi to support that?
How bout dont break into my fucking house
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At that point they've already knocked down your door shot your dog and are shooting wildly in your direction
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Imagine of you would, AG Keith Ellison, the man who would tear down the racist laws used by the state to hinder and inhibit the expansion of freedom for blacks, enforcing the very laws he claims are racist. The irony is so thick you can spread it around with a paint brush.
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Keith Ellison is himself racist and fits perfectly with that House Rep Ilhan Omar.
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No doubt
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Maybe Im an idiot but why cant we just nab people on their way to the car or something?
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Woah. Now by that logic, we could've just nabbed David Koresh on his usual morning run, but then how would the ATF justify these automatic rifles and submachine guns they bought?
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Best part is the sheriff literally told the ATF he could invite Koresh out to meet with them, making even a car nabbing unnecessary.
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Asked whether the statute governing police use of deadly force in Minnesota needs to be revised, Freeman said it’s complicated because officers must go toward danger...
SCOTUS has already ruled that officers DON'T have an obligation to "go toward danger", so... no.
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No knock warrants are a threat to everyone. Abolish them.
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American*
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Pretty sure they didn’t ask to see his passport in the two seconds before he was murdered.
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I want to see them try. There’s going to be a nice bowl of fed soup after the mines get them.
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Why hasn’t the NRA come out against this. Remember Breonna Taylor. Not a word from the major gun rights organizations and no GOP voicing support for victims like her.
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Because the NRA is not that useful.
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They’re a threat to ALL CITIZENS and you must fight tooth and nail against them.
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Yes. No knock warrants are also a threat to whoever is trying to kick out my door. I’m putting lead through it until it stops.
Not trying to be combative, but that's assuming you're able to wake up and react fast enough. This poor dude did not. =(
You’re exactly right. And it’s probably not in my favor. And what if the home invaders claim to be police? The system needs to be looked at.
Luckily I own my home and my bedroom is upstairs.
Definitely have the high ground so Obi Wan would be proud.
Obi-Wan would say you should train and BECOME the high ground.
They will just shoot through the floor and walls.
Another reason to reinforce your door kick plates and hinges. Gonna make a hell of a lot of noise trying to get into any of my doors. That gives me ample time to respond. Pistols are already chambered on my nightstand for instances such as these.
Are you saying that you agree that doors should come standard with tannerite door kick plates and panels? :>
No...you hide the tannerite in a stuffed dog by the front door...they'll instantly shoot it and create their own flash bang....this disorients the pigs long enough for me to get my strap on in place and turn my stereo full blast to pumped up kicks
I am right there with OP. And in my case there is always someone awake since due to previous jobs we are all on different schedules. So no matter the time of day, if the door gets busted in, someone is awake to sling lead.
Then, if you survive, you will be charged for killing/wounding a police officer.
Police get shot during no-knock raids often, and often it leads to the exoneration of the person who did the shooting. The case of Kenneth Walker shows a lot of reasons why that is.
But for national outcry surrounding the death of Breonna Taylor, Kenneth Walker would be buried under the jail.
Do you have any additional instances where someone shot an officer after a no knock warrant and were exonerated?
You might be right. I wasn't pointed to him so much as the defense of the case. They did very well, and the same defense is used often during no knock raids.
No knock raids are bullshit. I just want it to be known that courts often do actually recognize the danger in them and why that danger exists, and treats those involved in shooting according.
Often they don't, as well. So there's that.
That’s what lawyers are for.
You have way more confidence in the justice system than I do. I imagine the prosecutors and police will close ranks and bury the victim.
You are not wrong, but most of the time when the victim survives, they are aquitted.
General requirements for claiming self defense
Not committing a felony
In fear for your life
The average gun owner receiving a no knock raid would easily meet both of those requirements.
Yeah, but good lawyers are fucking expensive.
Yeah I know. Loosing family members costs more. Everyone should identify themselves before entering a home that isn’t theirs. I believe contact should be made establishing that they are indeed LEO.
I think the public should use the "i fear for my life an shoot the cops like they ARE doin us." Self defense is self defense
Yes. There'll be a court battle and all of that. Probably lots of stress, and not really right.
But still a better outcome than dead.
Depends on your race, that doesn't always happen though.
Unfortunately for this guy, they very quietly entered with a key, snuck up on him with guns drawn, then woke him up.