Source
r/Iteration110Cradle•
Not_going_to_hell

[Dreadgod] Is Lindon a ..

SpoilerCradle

Monarch? His power is fresh, he's only just begun learning how to wield it but..

I've been thinking about this. A monarch is a herald with a strong connection to the way, aka an icon. Lindon has the icon part already.

Now a herald is someone who's madra channels have become part of their body. This is done by merging with a compatible spirit, usually a remnant and becoming half spirit.

The advanges of this are insane control over madra and strength that's beyond what a mortal could manage. In addition, a heralds body can heal almost anything. They can grow back tissue using only madra.

Let's see how Lindon stacks up:

Even at underlord his strength was beyond what a sage had any right to posses. Consuming crusher who's strength was beyond phisical was huge for him. Remember the scene where Yerin, one of the strongest characters in the book and a potential candidate for the strength icon was squeezing him and he matched the strength using the power he took from crusher? He's been eating much bigger prey recently however, and it's clear that he's as strong or even stronger than a real herald. Even malice comments on it.

So Lindon has the strength, he has always been a bit of a brute, though through no fault of his own really lol. However, the other important thing heralds can do is heal instantly. Being half spirit their bodies can turn madra into flesh. Now Lindon isn't half spirit but some genius sacred artist gave him an iron body that turns madra into flesh, healing him instantly. A body that improves with advancement.. Dross notes that Lindon could probably keep fighting even if all he had left was his head. That sounds to me like something only a herald, and a powerful one at that, could manage.

So, are there and practical differences between Lindon's body and a herald? Not really. They traveled different routes but the reached exactly the same practical outcome.

Now, part of what we've always assumed makes a true monarch is the synergy between herald and sage. By merging with their bodies, heralds focus their will inwards gaining absolute dominion over their bodies. Even a monarch couldn't make a heralds heart stop with authority alone.

Sages by contrast gain authority over the world. They use their wills to affect others. Lindon is obviously a formidable sage, his authority has clashed with monarchs and at times even overwhelmed it.

When a sacred artist has authority over the world and the absolute dominion their bodies, they become known as monarchs.

After two rereads, I have concluded that Lindon is indeed a monarch. But wait, where did he gain the dominion over his own body? Well, I think that's actually fairly obvious. Lindon has been wrestling with his own arm for much of the series. Even before that, he split his own cores. He has developed as much authority over his own body as any herald. When he finally subdued subject ones arm, preventing it from manifesting its own authority, I think he proved this.

But wait... Lindon didn't gain the power of a monarch did he?

Well, consider the newly advanced monarch fury. Could fury, even with his centuries of experience, have defeated ANY of the other monarchs? Absolutely not, he was simply to new. He did however, crush a bunch of heralds and a sage. Could Lindon do that? Lindon eats heralds these days, and a single sage is no threat to him. Charity an experienced sage focused on spiritual and mental assaults can barely remaining standing under the weight of his spiritual pressure.

So, yes Lindon could have done what the new monarch fury did. But could fury have defeated malice, with the assistance of a single herald? Maybe? It's definitely hard to say.

Regan Shen may have been talking about himself when he said "this is hardly conduct fitting for a monarch" but he may well have decided Lindon is indeed a monarch. Shen for all his flaws is indeed a pioneering genius looking for new ways to gain power. He has subject ones core binding and knows more about the dreadgods than most. His conclusion..his approval grudging as it was, may well be show that for all his flaws, he is less blind than the other monarchs. He must have known, roughly at least, how strong Lindon was. Malice by contrast is far more arrogant than the lion king, she thought she could defeat Lindon easily and now has the absolute humiliation of being driven out of her own city.

So, is Lindon a monarch or equivalent? I don't know. Maybe will can tell us 🥺

This post is copied and pasted from a comment I made that got too long lol

Edit: I'm aware he's a dread-something however that's not usually a term used to describe human advancement.

If the dreadgods were described in human terms, I supposed they could be considered monarchs albeit warped. They no doubt all possess the hunger icon, we've seen them use the way and their madra channels are fused to their bodies like heralds. Normally, their power is similar to a monarchs, it was mentioned that a monarch could potentially kill a dreadgod, although they don't for obvious reasons.

So uh yeah, Lindon monarch/ monarch equivalent or no?

Edit2: Dreadbeasts and dreadgods don't have remnants. I'm not sure Lindon can manifest one now that his madra channels are fused to his flesh

Posted Jul 12, 2022, 12:05 PM UTC · edited

58110
IshaeniTolog•

Lindon is roughly as powerful as a Monarch currently, this is clear. The problem IMO with calling him a Monarch now is that he STILL has the option to advance again. He's already reached more-or-less the max normal power allowed by cradle, but he still has a legitimate opportunity to greatly exceed it.

If Lindon gets a power boost from all three of the other dreadgods, putting him well above any Monarch, and then his final play is to advance to Monarch officially and use the few days he can morally take before ascension to solve the Monarch issue, then he will almost certainly be the strongest unascended being in the history of Cradle. Ironically, he will have achieved the goal that Northstrider has been striving for - acending to the Abidan at a level higher than Monarch.

71
watchcryTeam Lindon•

If he kills the rest of the Dreadgods and then advances to monarch, he'll be able to consume the very hunger madra he'll produce. He'll most likely be able to stick around for at least a year after forcing all the other monarchs out.

22
-Yuri-•

I don't think I've seen someone make this point before. The Red Sage's goal, I believe, was to let all citizens of cradle have access to the hunger madra, so they could all, "theoretically", advance further without the need of Dreadgods to hold the residual hunger aura.

So, I agree. I think Lindon would be able to absorb, or at least contain, his own hunger aura/madra.

16
EquipLordBritish•

Somehow I think he's gonna get Yerin to absorb (at least part of) the bleeding phoenix, Ziel's gonna get the titan or the weeping dragon, and Orthos will get whichever Ziel doesn't.

(Lindon/Dross got dream power, Yerin gets blood power, Ziel gets Titan defense power or weeping dragon revenge power, and Orthos gets Titan shell power or Dragon power)

And Mercy eats her mom.

9
blitzbom•

I'll ne a bit upset if Ziel doesn't get some revenge on the Dragon.

3
jackson-pollox•

He can no longer merge with his remnant if he doesn't have one

7
AwwwYeahhh112•

Why do you think he doesn't have a remnant anymore?

9
jackson-pollox•

Dreadbeasts and dreadgods don't have them. I hadn't considered that until I read this post. But if he is now a dreadlord, he won't get a remnant

9
LIKES_TO_ABDUCT•

dreadlord

Wheel of Time fan detected.

18
Normal-Annual-2057•

His arm is a dreadgod he is mostly human lol

9
magi1201Majestic fire turtle•

The description that was given after he “ate” the silent king was of his channels melting into his body. This is the same wording used with the death hydra in reaper. That had no remnant, I doubt Lindon would have one if that did not.

5
InFearn0Path of the Comic Sans•

Dreadbeasts don't form remnants because their hunger bindings suck up all the pieces as they die and the latent remnant tries to form.

All we really know is that when Lindon ate the Silent King, the arm extended/replaced upwards sections of his arm.

The unknowns are:

  • Can a sacred artist suppress their own bindings to push out their latent remnant anyway? If so, then Lindon can push those pieces out and attempt to become a herald the traditional way.
  • Maybe he doesn't need to do it. Perhaps, like you said he has already gained the important part of being a herald (the whole body are effectively channels for madra).

But it probably doesn't matter. I doubt the final book will waste a lot of time describing their training, so it is likely that Lindon exits their pocket world a monarch (either because he already has all the benefits or because he does the normal spirit merging).

2
Niceguy4186•

powerful as a Monarch currently, this is clear. The problem IMO with calling him a Monarch now is that he STILL has the option to advance again. He's already reached more-or-less the max normal power allowed by cradle, but he still has a legitimate opportunity to greatly exceed it.

I forget which book it was, but he was talking with dross and said something like your remnant, at least all the material for a remnant is inside of you.

5
jackson-pollox•

Yeah but he only.became part dreadgod this book

1
Dom_writez•

How so? He is fully a dreadgod now. His spirit is fully fused with his body, and he can't form a remnant anymore

-1
ShlockoFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

This is the stance I take. I don’t consider him a proper monarch or a proper dreadgod, but has taken an entirely unique path to advancement, and shares similarities with both. I also believe he doesn’t have a traditional remnant any longer.

Not sure why everyone is so opposed to this idea, but seems the most likely to me

3
SonOfDennyTeam Orthos•

What is to stop Northstrider from doing the same thing that Lindon has done? He could consume one of the other dreadgod and do the same thing Lindon did all while already being a true Monarch.

1
RevolutionaryDelay93•

He's as powerful as a monarch. He took the punch of Northstrider and survived. He suppressed Charity like a child. He's erasing fate and all. All his feats points to monarch but he used a different than normal route. A sage has understanding and the herald is spiritually anchored to the body. A monarch is the combination of both. Lindon has achieved that.

42
ObberGobbTeam Eithan•

If he's still technically a Sage while having a Monarch's level of power, how ridiculously OP would he be if he becomes a Herald and actually advances to Monarch? He might actually be able to solo the Monarchs at that point.

33
jackson-pollox•

He can't fuse with his remnant if he no longer has one

9
honey-monster21•

Northsider fused with a dragon remnant

-3
jackson-pollox•

He did not, he fought a dragon remnant after becoming monarch. His own remnant was draconic due to consuming so many dragons

10
RevolutionaryDelay93•

Man is aiming to kill dreadgods. Where it requires a group of monarchs to effectively fight one. He's going to be the most powerful creature in cradle before ascending. After all his master us ozmanthus himself.

3
InnoMesh•

Can you elaborate on power difference between Lindon and charity?

5
RevolutionaryDelay93•

Charity draws her power from icons. Lindon eats icons for lunch.

3
goksekorTeam Lindon•

He has consistently hit above his weightclass, hasn't he?

I was almost going to start by saying "even if he is a conventional sage..." but then it hit me. He has never been conventional anything, has he? He has always found ways to close the gap, be it trickery, constructs, sheer willpower, or good old Dross. Of course he would find a way to take a beating from a Monarch or tie it in a draw.

4
EmilioFreshtevez•

I’m obviously not Will so this isn’t canon, but I would say no. The way I understand it is that there’s a process to becoming a Monarch that Lindon hasn’t undergone, so while he may have power relative to a Monarch he isn’t one himself.

33
Deadscale•

I mean there's a process to get to Herald and Yerin skipped that,

There's a process to get to Gold and Eithan said it's possible to hit gold without consuming a remnant and getting a Gold Sign (although he could be lying when he says this).

There's also a process to pass on your power as a Monarch to an individual.

Cradle's advancements aren't something that are set in stone, they're the just the most common way, Lindon is most likely just a Dreadgod now.

8
jackson-pollox•

(although he could be lying when he says this).

Lindon didn't consume a remnant, Lindon didn't get a gold sign... He got a weird path effect when using madra. It's not a goldsign. His Silent King halo eyes arguably are a goldsign / monarch sign.

6
Deadscale•

Lindon didn't consume a remnant, Lindon didn't get a gold sign...

I wasn't referring to Lindon here. What i mean by lying was that, when Eithan is talking about this to Lindon, Eithan implies that he could've gotten to Lowgold without a Remnant or a Spirit Partner purely on the quality and quantity of his own Madra because "that's what Eithan had done", that's why Eithan didn't have a Gold Sign (according to Eithan).

However, we know Eithan is Oz, so maybe this was a lie to disguise the fact Eithan was far more powerful then he let slip.

4
generic_edgelord Lurks in the Shadows•

Orthos also said the only difference between a jade and a lowgold is a mountain of power, i.e. you dont get special powers when advancing to gold like you do during the three foundation stages and lord realms (unless you bond with a remnant) you just get metric boatloads of power which you could cycle yourself

7
jackson-pollox•

Oh I see, without a contracted partner too. That's true we don't know if that's technically possible yet to do on your own. We know it's possible with a single pill but nothing else

3
First-End8972•

Didn't Lindon advance his pure core to gold without a remnant? He used the Heaven and Earth Purification Wheel to increase madra quality and density.

2
mp3max•

mean there's a process to get to Herald and Yerin skipped that,

Yes but also no.

The process to become a Herald is "combine your flesh with a compatible spirit". Usually, people do this with their own remnant, but Yerin did this with a Blood Shadow. Either way, she still merged her flesh with a spirit.

4
Deadscale•

Yes but also no.

The process to become a Herald is "combine your flesh with a compatible spirit". Usually, people do this with their own remnant, but Yerin did this with a Blood Shadow. Either way, she still merged her flesh with a spirit.

I disagree, this is only the process AFTER Yerin.

The process to become a Herald BEFORE Yerin was always to combine with your own Remnant. Not a compatible spirit. No one else had done it differently. This is literally why what Yerin has done is so Huge for Red Faith and as he puts it could "revolutionize the Sacred Arts entirely".

And that's what I'm getting at with my comment, there are Typical ways people advance in Cradle that most people take as assumed fact that it is the only way to do it, and as we've seen throughout the series Lindon and Co. seem to constantly skirt that assumed fact and outright break it most of the time. And 9/10 the Solution comes from Eithan which isn't surprising given who he is.

People have One core, One path because splitting it cuts your Madra in half and it's a huge struggle to use two paths at once. Everyone Lindon spoke to about using multiple Paths shot him down until Eithan said it's doable. So Lindon (along with Eithan) break this rule entirely, he not only has two cores, he not only has an insane amount of Madra, but he's able to use multiple paths as they both complement each other and use similar principles.

People take in a Remnant to advance to Gold, this is how pretty much everyone does it, but Eithan fixes both Lindon's issue with another path and advancing him in both cores by suggesting Spirit Bonding with Orthos, something that's been largely forgotten and isn't practised. Not only that but Eithan later explains that you can advance to lowgold without doing any of that purely on the quality and quantity of your Madra. These ideas go against the base concepts that people in the world of Cradle assume are 100% required and they end up working and achieve the same result just with a different path.

The same can be said about the majority of other advancements, People don't fully understand the Lord revelations where-as we're flat out told in Reaper by Lindon (after Eithan teaches him the principle of the Sacred Arts) how they work and he wonders why it isn't more common knowledge.

People used to become sages way earlier but sages are becoming rarer, where-as Eithan's cycling method is basically "how to make a sage", he even manifested the Broom icon just to piss off Scholars and caused them to commit suicide.

What I'm getting at with all of the above is, Most people on Cradle believe Sacred Arts and Advacement all work in one specific way, and we learn along with Eithan that there are multiple ways to get to the same destination, so what if Lindon hasn't manifested and fused with his own Remnant yet, that doesn't mean he can't get to Monarch some other way.

0
EquipLordBritish•

I disagree, this is only the process AFTER Yerin.

To paraphrase Eithan, it's seems arrogant to assume we know everything that's happened in history.

1
EmilioFreshtevez•

So in your eyes, what does it take to be considered a Monarch? You bring up some valid points so I’m definitely not disagreeing w/ you or anything, just curious as to what line or lines you feel someone needs to cross for us to say “Yup, ____ made it to Monarch.” Is it simply being above a certain power threshold? I would say that the 8ME supports that claim.

I personally feel like Yerald’s situation is different from Lindon’s. While she achieved Herald in a way no one has before, Red Faith has speculated that it was possible for years, and it’s a process that can theoretically be replicated (obviously not possible if they kill the Phoenix, but still). Lindon’s journey is a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

1
AuthorBrianBlose•

Dreadgod chapter 10, Red Faith's thoughts on himself and his blood shadow: "Even as they grew into a pair and dominated other Sages and Heralds -- even challenging Monarchs, at the height of their power..."

From that, I came to the conclusion that Sages and Heralds can get close to the power of a Monarch . . . but only temporarily. Monarchs can go to war with a Dreadgod for days at a time. Sages and Heralds can pack a real punch, but don't have that kind of endurance.

My theory is that Sage authority reinforces a Herald body and a Herald body can better handle the physical stress of using willpower. Lindon has his madra channels burned into his physical body, but he is still mostly flesh and blood. He just no longer has to worry about damaging his madra channels from over-use. He is beyond a Sage but not quite to Monarch, in my opinion. When he finally joins with his remnant, I imagine he will easily be the most powerful Monarch Cradle has ever seen.

33
Stryker7200•

I see it as him being as powerful as a sage can possibly get via all the benefits his consume power has gifted him. Add the dreadgod arm and power boost from killing the SK and that was how he was keeping up with Malice for a bit. However it’s clear he is not as strong as Malice and he realizes he would be easily defeated by her in a prolonged fight.

So imo he basically the strongest sage ever + dreadgod bonus.

4
Turbulent-Swordfish2Reader•

TLDR

He is a Dreadgod.

28
nad09#1 Waifu Naru Saeya•

He is more like dreadsage

16
Disastrous_Time_4662•

Mor like a monarch from wish.com

22
nad09#1 Waifu Naru Saeya•

Get a cheap copy of monarch at a discount only at wish.com. vender cradle incorporated

4
Hk-47_Meatbags_•

VCI Subsidiary of minds eye, the dross of one galaxy is the treasure of your eternity.

2
RHNewfieldTeam Eithan•

Yeahhhhhh.

Book is called "Dreadgod". Lindon absorbs the power of the Silent King as it's dispersed to the other Dreadgods, but he didn't actually do anything to get a portion of the power, it just went to him automatically. Dude's a minor dreadgod for sure.

5
TristanTheViking•

Dude's a minor dreadgod for sure.

31.25% dreadgod assuming he got a full quarter of the Silent King's allotment of hunger madra, who was 125% dreadgod at the time after Slumbering Wraith's death.

5
RedRick42Team Little Blue•

He is a Class 2 Fiend.

3
SpheriusTeam Dross•

So I was paying close attention to the Lindon & Yerin vs Malice fight at the end of the book, and it seems to me that he's not quite Monarch-level, in truth. Yes, he can meet a blow from Northstrider without being totally demolished, so he's definitely more than a Sage (though he did get sent flying pretty hard--he didn't exactly win that exchange), but we see Fury as a Monarch taking some time to put down a group of Heralds, so a true Herald can actually fight a Monarch for at least a while without being destroyed--and thus, not getting obliterated by a single Monarch blow is not evidence of being Monarch-level.

Which brings me to some relevant quotes from the Malice fight.

From Malice's perspective:

Malice felt a pressure in her hand, and she gripped harder.

In the center of her armor's palm, Lindon blazed blue-white with his full-body Enforcer technique. He pushed against her.

And he really pushed. It was power she didn't think he'd be able to show before Monarch: the physical strength of a Herald. The stolen Dreadgod vitality had treated him well.

Of course, it wasn't enough. The Void Icon had no domain over physical power.

And she was a true Monarch.

(Dreadgod, Chapter 22, page 459)

So that passage makes clear that while Lindon has strength equivalent of a Herald's, he doesn't have the complete fusion of spirit and body that a true Herald does, and hence doesn't have the ability to put his will behind his strength the way Yerin can. Malice, by contrast, does, and uses it to overpower Lindon here.

From Lindon's perspective:

At this rate, Malice was going to wear them down. Yerin didn't have the madra reserves to fight for another hour, while Malice could go for days. Lindon could keep up in endurance, but as soon as Yerin was out of the fight, Malice would be too much for him. Especially with the support from Moongrave keeping him locked down.

(Dreadgod, Chapter 22, page 468)

So Lindon, too, acknowledges that he's not a match for a full Monarch; he needs Yerin's support to be able to hold out in a pitched battle.

23
ahdjeisk23•

Moongrave has defenses to defend against a Dreadgod. He faced that too. He wasn’t saying she was too much. But with the defenses he couldn’t move the way he wanted.

1
mp3max•

He wasn’t saying she was too much

That's quite literally what he said. Malice was too much for him alone. The support from Moongrave exacerbated the problem.

If I say "I can't juggle bowling pins" and then add ", especially if they are on fire", that doesn't mean I'm implying I could juggle them if they weren't, just pointing out that them being on fire makes it even more impossible.

8
Low-Priority4156•

He was absolutely saying she would be too much. The addition of the defenses Moongrave had just sealed the deal. He's far stronger than a Sage or Herald but he's not up to the level of a Monarch yet.

7
realistic_idealist41Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

A herald is someone who has merged with their own remnant (or a nearly perfectly compatible spirit, thanks, Yerin.) A monarch is a herald who is also a sage.

I am pretty sure that Lindon draining the Silent King and getting a share of his power after he died does not count as a herald transformation. So no, he's not a monarch.

Instead, we've seen that dreadgods also have their spirit and physical bodies merged, like heralds do. And that appears to be the path that Lindon is currently on.

The interesting question to me is whether or not he can still complete the herald transformation. A few people have pointed out that dreadgods and dreadbeasts do not leave remnants. So it's possible that The Whimpering Flea no longer has one to merge with. If that's true, he may not be able to actually become a monarch. I'm not completely certain that this is the case, but I do think that the argument is convincing.

22
VaxtrosFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

A good argument, but I would argue that since it’s just his arm that’s dreadgod, the rest of him might be normal. Perhaps the Whiny Child has a one armed remnant?

9
Hk-47_Meatbags_•

Northstrider thinks the slobbering fool has a remnant to steal dross from so there that.

8
VaxtrosFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Plus one for the Whimpering Flea having a remnant theory!

8
realistic_idealist41Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Yup, totally possible. I think it comes down to how the dreadgod/beast transformation interacts with the subject's remnant. Dross said at one point that Lindon had all the components to make a remnant. Are those used to create the spiritual melding? Does the remnant not manifest on death because the pathways created just prevent it from coming out? Because of spiritual damage? Because of the nature of the hunger madra? It seems to me that that will be the determining factor and we just don't know enough to be able to answer that question. Either way, I think it will be absolutely fascinating to read about it in waybound.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Brometheus-Pound•

The narrative right after Lindon kills SK and takes in the power has some good info about this. It’s clearly described that Lindon is the fourth dreadgod and that his madra channels “burned into his flesh” and “his cores condensed like a spirit, becoming more real.” It concludes that “his spirit and body were transformed by the dreadgod’s power”.

That sounds like a herald transformation. I think he’s the dreadgod equivalent of a newbie monarch now, but he’s still far from his Cradle peak.

2
LowPolyPrototypeTeam Yerin•

He may be able to become a monarch if he fuses with someone else's remnant, but I agree that is probably unlikely. The Gluttonous Goblin's madra channels and cores burned into his flesh, so none of him seems to be normal anymore. I don't think he can manifest his remnant, and I doubt he'd find one with pure, blackflame, and hunger madra considering hunger madra seems to prevent remnants and few people have split cores with the other two...

Have you compared his transformation to Yerin's? It should be interesting seeing how the differences affect how they can fight. We've seen the herald transformation dissolve the body into their madra and require reforging, and we've seen heralds go splat and reforge themselves afterwards. The Whiny Child did the opposite and had his madra burnt into his flesh. I don't think he can access any of the hallmark traits of heralds but has to Leech off his iron body to heal from his endless supply of madra / opponents.

1
Panro911•

Dreadsage or Dreadlord someone referenced. He is not a monarch. I believe he will stay within this weight class to avoid becoming monarch until the last possible chance before ascending. He may be in between a monarch remnant and a monarch strength wise.

Edit: I should probably add since it’s Lindon, it’s a probably a never before seen class given he reached sage at underlord.

15
Hk-47_Meatbags_•

He just had to try and match Yerin for weird advancement.

2
blubby-bluFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

A true monarch is a complete Herald. They are part spirit and physical like Lindon, but a monarch has more control over these powers. For example, a monarch can switch between spirit and physical forms. I don't think Lindon can. Lindon is monarch like, but not a true one until he fully combines with his spirit.

9
gimgebowReader•

For example, a monarch can switch between spirit and physical forms.

Where are you getting this from?

4
dtmjuiceTeam Little Blue•

Iirc, that's basically how NS described herald to Yerin at the end of the uncrowned tournament

8
blubby-bluFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Winter steel, northstridor's stolen memory when fighting a herald. I am just making the assumption that since a monarch has already become a herald they can do the same thing the dragon herald was doing.

5
ikramit98Team Orthos•

Lindon is stronger than any one sage or herald but not monarch level yet. There's a difference between surving against a monarch and being able to beat one; the malice fight proves he's not on that level yet.

6
jackson-pollox•

Being a monarch is about the multiplicative effect of having authority over your own body, and your surroundings.

Having authority over your own body means you can enforce your strength using the way, for example.

Having authority over the rest of the world means you can also push things externally, without using your body, using the way. This is a silly example but it gets the point across.

Those two facts combined multiply together instead of add.

Lindon has not undergone a process by which he exerts authority over his own body. Currently, anyway.

Whether or not he has a remnant I don't know, I hadn't considered. I doubt he does at this point.

I don't know what Lindon's path to monarch would look like. A blood shadow probably wouldn't work as that is a spirit, and Lindon now has physical madra channels.

I assume he is now locked out of monarch and must reach their heights via consuming other significant beings such as dreadgods. (the same way using a significant resource for soulsmithing gives you a powerful item, consuming powerful items gives you powerful advancement like Crusher).

6
Not_going_to_hellOP•

Being a monarch is about the multiplicative effect of having authority over your own body, and your surroundings.

Agreed.

Lindon has not undergone a process by which he exerts authority over his own body. Currently, anyway.

Has he though? He exercises authority over his arm which is a part of his body and he controls the changes to his body when the silent king died. Lindon has shown a great degree of control over his body, greater than what any Archlord could manage.

Tldr: Idk

4
account312•

To the extent of turning into a glowing blob and totally reforming from nothing? Heralds take it several steps beyond just bossing their arm around.

1
Magoo2032Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

I think the Cradle folks who are not recognizing Lindon as a Monarch are doing so for the same reason they didn't recognize Yerin as a full Herald: because the path to get there was unconventional.

One thing is for sure, Lindon is going to be juggling Monarchs and Dreadgods when he gets out of that pocket world.

6
generic_edgelord Lurks in the Shadows•

You become a herald by bringing out your own remnant and merging with it, merging your remnant and your madra channels with your physical flesh, you can bypass this step by bonding with a bloodshadow and feeding it your own lifeline and shit so it practically becomes a second remnant for you but you cant just grab any remnant of a compatible path like advancing to gold

Lindon still hasnt technically ascended to monarch he will be even stronger if he does (which im assuming he will in the final book), he definately has a conceptual weight equal to a monarch after absorbing the silent king though,

4
Psychological_Tear_6Team Mercy•

I think Lindon lacks the experience and possibly some harmonising to truly become a Monarch. Like, he has all the ingredients, now he just needs to bake them and do some finishing touches, and then he's all set.

3
estoricaTeam Lindon•

Lindon is as powerful as a fresh Monarch, without actually being one. His surge of power comes from a portion of the SK since he binded S1 arm to him, so while not actually being a Monarch, he has the power equivalence of one. If he did advance, well, that's a bit too op for the world

3
Secure_Ruin_98•

Can’t remember where in the books this is said but Heralds can infuse their attacks with willpower basically empowering themselves greater than they are. I don’t think Lindon can do that yet so wouldn’t be considered a Herald even if some of his physical traits are akin to Herald level.

3
Guhtts•

All I know is that, I WANT THAT MONARCH ADVANCEMENT FOR LINDON!! Described in all its unholy glory by Will and brought to life by Travis. The End.

3
cretan_bull•

I'm surprised no-one's quoted this.

Chapter 18:

Searing heat passed through Lindon’s body as his madra channels burned into his flesh, transforming into part of his body. His cores condensed like a spirit, becoming more real. His eyes blazed and froze, like he was channeling Blackflame and pure madra at the same time.

That seems pretty clear. Consuming the Silent King resulted in something that if not an actual Herald transformation, was very similar.

3
gimgebowReader•

Dross notes that Lindon could probably keep fighting even if all he had left was his head.

Where are you getting this from?

Also, I think we're missing something here....

Lindon still hasn't absorbed his remnant. So I'd say he's a Dread Sage or a Dreadgod if you really want to get technical, and when he absorbs his remnant he will become a Dread Monarch. So, no he's not a monarch. His power level is probably on par with a fledgling monarch though.

2
mordero•

Dross tells Yerin this when Lindon comes to her on the Redmoon Hall cloud ship when Reigan Shen was there.

"Dross whispered into Yerin's mind. [Scary, isn't he? We were practicing this on the way over in case he ran into a Monarch. When he felt you were under attack, I thought his heart was going to stop. Not that a heart attack would slow him down anymore. I feel like he could keep fighting if all he had left was a head.]"

5
InFearn0Path of the Comic Sans•

Lindon is probably not a monarch (yet).

I think Malice might have thought or said something like, "Lindon has an incredible physique." (The adjective might be off, but she definitely referenced his physique.)

Basically by consuming the Silent King, Lindon was able to cheat around the advancement limits of Cradle like the dreadgods do.

We don't really know enough to definitively say that the process of eating a dreadgod is equivalent to becoming a herald. But he certainly seems to be close enough to their level that the monarchs didn't go all out against him (they tried to keep enough back that they could defend themselves and disengage).

2