"Descent into madness" my week long conversation with a Bitcoin maximalist
Last week as I was answering the usual cryptobro argument "Bitcoin might use a lot of energy but what about the banking system?" on the France subreddit, I received soon after a private message from a Bitcoin maximalist that we will name "Omelette"
Omelette was quite angry with my answer that put Bitcoin in a bad light! for a week I managed to remain calm (mostly) and endure various provocations because I was so slow to understand (so that's on me, sorry Omelette!) but my quest was not vain, I learned many lessons that I liked to share with you, bunch of unbelievers!
Basic idea
- Bitcoin is deflationary so if the world adopt Bitcoin, there won't be inflation anymore, no debt, production will slow down and therefore climate crisis will be solved and if that happen there won't be any turmoil or crisis because "it cannot get worse"
- Therefore if you're against Bitcoin, you're anti-environmentalist (obvious! I mean follow a bit people! Bitcoin is the solution so if you're against the solution, you're the problem!)
- I mentioned that it's just theory and it will probably not work but apparently I'm irrational and like someone in a sect because unlike many, Omelette think "many understands" and it's obvious
Bitcoin and CO2
- Bitcoin don't produce that much CO2, data is vague and we don't know. Even if it does, it's the fault of producers of energy and not Bitcoin!
- I learned that I worry too much about CO2 and received a "study" stating that Bitcoin is almost green. The 'study' was just some random-not-peer-reviewed text written by the CEO of crypto placement society and not a scientific study but...
- It's stupid for me to listen to experts because experts are working for the system (which is of course a very sound argument) so I guess it's a good thing the "study" wasn't written by a loser scientist!
- Omelette debunked the study published in Nature by sending me a link to a random internet forum where a random person was unimpressed. He also praised himself for his amazing critical thinking (that I lack)
Bitcoin as money
- Bitcoin in 2022 is not a speculative assets but a money in many countries and Omelette is very happy with the current state of adoption. Governments cannot stop Bitcoin.
- It's not a problem that so much of the next world money is in the hand of a few thousands unknown people because... well it's not the problem of Bitcoin or something like this because inequality has always existed.
- Not a problem either if half Bitcoin transactions are done with Tether shady stablecoin though I didn't manage to understand why it's not a problem.
- Working in IT give him a big advantage in understanding monetary systems because monetary system are IT at core. I reminded of "The lines goes up" when Dan Olson mention that the critical failure of Cryptos are how cryptobros think technology fix human nature but then I reminded that he must be working for the "system"
I hope my research will serve all of you! It wasn't always easy but to quote the words of Omelette: THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
P.S. I asked Omelette if by having Bitcoin, it could influence his opinion but I was assured that the fact he would get very rich had no influence. I like to believe in people so I didn't question that statement.
Posted Oct 3, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC · edited
"monetary system are IT at core"
Nothing could be further from the truth..... I don't even know where to begin. Just because you say a thing doesn't make it true!
I was trying to make him acknowledge that at least the subject was complicated and it wasn’t is area of expertise and he might be wrong but no, I got this answer.
But what to tell someone who is adamant about understanding something?
Honestly, it's not really worth arguing with people this far gone unless it's someone you care about IRL or you're entertained by it. Not only are they basically in a cult at this point, there's not enough of them to be a real problem versus trying to warn people who are on the fence or who are genuinely confused.
I'll argue with people if they show up here because I know some of the people who aren't as far gone browse our sub looking for counterarguments (and because I enjoy the argument).
I used to post in r/cc with a separate account using much softer language to try and get people to think more critically (and had some real success doing so), but the mods eventually got pissy and banned the account (despite not violating any of the sub rules lol).
Well I was genuinely curious about how you manage to fall into this crypto trap so even if I would have liked to bring some sanity I really wanted to understand.
Now of course the answer is not very surprising: it's when your critical thinking has major flaws coupled with the absolute confidence that your critical thinking has no flaws.
I hesitate, but simplistically he sort of has a point since information matters when it comes to financial systems and people make decisions based on information they receive. Whether this information comes via carrier pigeons or fiber optic doesn't matter, it's just the technology that allows information to transmit faster or slower.
However, IT is just the means, it forms part of the core of monetary systems but there is other stuff that forms it too, like rationality and utility, other economic concepts.
Yeah, but while generally I've come to terms with the expression "IT" to mean computers and networking and stuff, they're not actually the same, and the distinction matters here. Fixing printers doesn't make me an economic authority.
I agree: understanding IT when analysing Bitcoin certainly give an edge on certain part of the question. But not understanding that it goes way beyond and you have to doubt yourself over those over fields you don't have any knowledge? that's arrogance and self-delusion.
I mean my point in the discussion was literally to make him concede that it was very complex to imagine what the world looks like with a crypto takeover and he might be wrong but no, I didn't get that.
The butter is confusing the easy part - just keeping track of everyone's balance - for the system as a whole. The former is just an IT problem (it's literally tracking information and ensuring it remains consistent and correct), but the latter is not
Didnt you know that there was no financial system in place before the 1960s because it doesn't conceptually work without IT?
All those conspiracy theories about there even being tally sticks used as money in some caves about 30'000 years ago. Lies, nothing but lies!
Obviously there are many problems with the display of lunacy in the original post, but the idea that IT skills give him (it's almost certainly a he) an edge in finance is probably the most laughable.
If you dwell in a basement it's not totally insane to believe that though - IT skills have given us (like much of Reddit I work in IT) an edge over the past couple of decades. We have had lots of well-paying jobs to choose from, and understanding the internet before most allowed us to get in on the ground, and be well ahead of the existing workforce when it came to the introduction of computers and networking into the workplace.
This made us feel smart, and gave rise to techno-solutionism - the idea that technology can solve everything. I have totally been guilty of this myself, and it's fair to say it formed a significant part of my worldview even as recently as 2015.
But once you see how technology can equally be a force for bad (and it's not like we weren't warned - see any dystopian sci-fi novel), you realise it's just a tool, and that it's the people behind the tool that make the difference.
My personal awakening was becoming aware of the extent of the harm that social media can cause, driven home by the disinformation and animosity around Brexit in my home of the UK. But many (mostly outside of IT...) were well ahead! In an oversimplisitic way you could say my worldview flipped from "technology can solve politics" to "politics can solve technology".
I've overshot the mark a bit here though - let's come back to the idiot described by OP. Besides not being aware enough of his own biases, he doesn't even understand that IT skills are not an edge any more. They are a requirement to perform almost any non-manual job.
Bitcoin maximalism preys on a few cognitive biases, but probably the biggest one is an over-inflated view of ones intelligence.
Footnote:
Posts like the one I just wrote always have me questioning myself; because I am prone to biases too. To write the above, I have to believe that I am smarter than a Bitcoin Maximalist. But then I realise that it's this self-reflection that helps counteract biases. But that in turn strengthens my convictions, thus reinforcing any biases that I am not smart enough to see... head explodes