Feedback on a Logical Progression-style nonlinear plan and how to program climbing with that
For the first time, I spent time reviewing how my year in climbing went and what I want to do better for next year. My main takeaway is that I need to transition from "just climb" and "outdoors as much as possible" to something a bit more organized, with actual goals and a plan for how to achieve them. I've tried to section this off to make it skimmable, so you can just skip to the training plan if you don't need context.
I've read through RCTM and Logical Progression and I think, for now, the basic level I nonlinear plan Bechtel outlines in LP makes the most sense for me, for the following reasons:
- I can and do climb outdoors whenever possible, there are several limit bouldering projects I can easily get to with my schedule and routine, and would like to be able to take advantage of good conditions whenever they pop up
- I like to do a bit of sport and bouldering, say 30%/70% split, and generally go by partner availability and what they're interested in
- I have ADHD and like the simplicity of Logical Progression, it's much easier for me to do a Power day because the last session was Strength than make a 14-16 week calendar for training. I think ANY organized training will help me a lot so why not go with the simplest version to start?
- I'm older and sometimes need to take extra rest, and LP makes that easier to do.
If you haven't read it, Logical Progression suggests a nonlinear plan with a training day dedicated to Strength, Power, and Endurance. You cycle through them, progressing intensity as you go. After about 8-10 sessions (or whenever you can't progress intensity) you change up the stimuli, so maybe you move from weighted pullups to barbell rows—that sort of thing.
Main question: How do you program climbing in these plans?
My main confusion is how to program climbing along with my training. Do I match a Strength Session in the weight room with a strength-focused climbing session, doing a lot of static climbing and hover hands type of things?
For example: I want to do integrated strength circuits, with max hangs, compound lifts, and stretching. It seems like I should climb first before lifting, but I think max hangs are meant to be done before climbing (I've never done them).
I want to stick to the principles Bechtel lays out about a 25%:75% training to climbing split, and, in general, the wisdom of his chapter about how most of my improvement is going to come from practice, rather than training.
I can see an argument for doing everything on the wall and simply changing the focus of my climbing to match strength, power, and endurance. At the same time, I think posterior chain and full body activation are major weaknesses of mine and compound lifts, box jumps, etc. would be really useful, especially as it gets colder and outdoor days become more rare.
Schedule considerations - AKA why not do more, shorter sessions?
For life reasons, it's easiest for me to get to the gym on Tuesdays for 4 hours, Wednesdays for 4 hours, and Sundays for 3 hours. I could probably swap the Weds for like 2 hrs on Thurs or Fri and might have to for rest reasons.
I could hear treating the LP programming as its own, separate thing and go to gym for 60-90 minutes in the morning and then just climb as normal in the afternoon. Wouldn't be that convenient, though. I could also separate my hangboard work as I have one at home. My work schedule is flexible but unpredictable, so I'm often finding time rather than planning in advance.
About me and goals
I'm 37 in New England. It's relatively easy to get on a variety of bouldering here. Sport is a bit more of a commitment but I enjoy it. I boulder outdoors 1-4 times a week, and sport climb 1-4 times a month. I need to make sure I get 2 days rest each week, and can really only climb two days in a row if it's completely different styles.
Training age: I started climbing around 18, but only in short 3-4 month stints. I could never seem to get that much better. I had a fitness and weight loss breakthrough in my early 30s, and have been continuously climbing and getting better at climbing for the past 4 years.
Climbing level: I had a great strength/power peak in November and sent my first two outdoor V5s. I'm one move away on two more. One is hard to get to and northerly so it'll probably wait until next year, but the other is about 15 min from my house and I really just have to link it. I've switched focus to clearing out V4s and below when I get the chance to go outside.
My sport climbing has really stagnated since I learned to do it a couple seasons ago. My best onsight and best redpoint are both 5.10d. I've projected some 11s, but it's harder to get to them consistently. I'm OK with sport climbing being more of a "for fun" thing, but would like to address fear of falling, pacing, and endurance to bring it more in line with my bouldering level.
Goals:
- Create a doable structure around how I approach climbing
- Take more video of myself and coach myself from it, this approach has been very helpful this sending season
- Improve general fitness and conditioning through structured gym sessions and diet.
- Improve posterior chain activation, power, and hand->toe connection through Moon/Tension board projects and compound lifts. I tried to do a 60-90 minute system board session once a week over the summer, and it really helped me have a great Fall season
- Improve footwork, dynamic/power moves, when to open/close hips through drills, more work in improvement zone (three tries and move on at Onsight and Onsight+1)
- Improve finger health and strength through max hangs and Tyler Nelson bodyweight protocol (https://www.trainingbeta.com/the-simplest-finger-training-program/)*
- Address fear of falling on lead through drills and a structured plan, my onsight grade is the same as my max redpoint and both are far below my max bouldering grade
- Improve pacing, tempo, and flow when climbing on lead (this might need to be addressed AFTER fear of falling)
*I know some people on this sub don't like him, but I've followed this protocol a couple times and my fingers have never felt stronger or healthier. Might not be perfect but it works for me.
Training Plan
Note: The way this works is I have each of these sessions on a separate page I'll print out, each with 8 check boxes. I'll cycle through a Strength, Power, or Endurance workout as I get the opportunity to go to the gym, and I'll check off a box. When I get to 8, I'll assess if I'm progressing or plateauing and adjust the stimulus as necessary.
Strength Session
WARM-UP
- Light Cardio (10 min)
- Bouldering drills (30 min): hover hands, match every hand drill, two foot moves for every hand move drill
CLIMBING
- Climbing with perfect repeats, Onsight + 1 (60 min)
TRAINING - Integrated Strength Session - 3 sets of each group (15 min per group)
Intensity: weight, reps and speed for ab wheel
GROUP A
- A1: Max hang, open hand
- A2: Squat, 3 reps
- A3: Hip mobility, knee touch external/internal, 60 seconds
GROUP B
- B1: Max hang, half crimp
- B2: Overhead press, 5 sets
- B3: Shoulder Mobility, wobble ball on wall, 30 sec each arm
GROUP C
- C1: Max hang, 2-finger pocket (middle and ring fingers is weaker for me)*
- C2: Ab Wheel, reps
- C3: Lunge stretch, bent knee, internal/external, 30 sec each knee
*This could really be any grip type... thought it would be useful to program a weakness
Power Session
WARM-UP
- Light cardio (10 min)
- Bouldering drills (30 min): climb slow then climb fast, skip holds, cut feet every move
- Foot traverse on system board (10 min)
CLIMBING
Limit Bouldering on a system board:
- Hard bouldering - V-max-1ish, 3-4 attempts per problem (30ish min)
- Limit bouldering - 5 min rest between attempts, 10 min between problems (30ish min)
TRAINING - Complex Power Workout (pg. 120 LP)
Intensity: Add weight for lifts, box height, explosiveness with pushups
GROUP A (4 rounds):
- Deadlift x2-3
- Box Jump x4-6
- Frog Stretch x45-60 secs
GROUP B (4 rounds):
- Bench Press x2-3
- Power Push-Up x4-6
- Arm Bar x30sec per side working up to a minute
Later in day, 5-6 hours after climbing: Simplest hangboarding protocol
Endurance Session
CLIMBING
- Bouldering, 3 attempts per climb, add up V grades and divide by minutes (30-60 min)
- ARC - 2x20 min, increase to 30 min then add a set, emphasis on body repositioning
TRAINING - Cardiac Output
Intensity***:*** 20 min to start, increase by 5 min each session
- Full-body cardio, avoid running/cycling, at 120-155 BPM, conversational intensity
Later the day, Simplest hangboarding protocol
TLDR
Does my climbing programming make sense with my training sessions? I'd really like to do everything in one big chunk as it fits my schedule, but should I just completely unlink them and do short training sessions in the mornings? If so, how do I focus my climbing sessions to fit in things like drills and system board time while still going outdoors when conditions are good?
Thanks for sticking with me through this long post and thanks in advance for any feedback. I'm currently isolating with COVID so I'm doing all this paperwork as a way to keep my psych high for when I can get back on some rock.
Posted Dec 1, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC
I have a couple thoughts.
I think your core question is how to program climbing with supplemental training, and I think that's going to depend on the relative importance of each, for you. And the relative importance of the attribute you're supplementing for. To me, if you can get outside, with not-terrible conditions, do that. Do whatever is motivating outside currently, then add supplemental stuff to make it match the schedule. For example, if I have a power-endurance workout next on the calendar, but my project is dry and I'm psyched, I'm going projecting. Then stopping by the gym to do one or two 4x4s. If conditions are good, go project and send. True up the calendar with other stuff when it's convenient.
Bechtel's been on a lot of podcasts talking about this approach. those interviews might be useful. And Steve Maisch did a great interview on TrainingBeta about a similar approach.
Yeah just to add to this - C4HP podcast on “In season training” discusses power training as something you train in season. You generally need to be training at ~40% of 1RM or some metres/second range. Definitely something we should utilise but again, more of an in season thing
What would you suggest instead? Hover hands, slow and fast, etc. are all recommended by several sources. It's really just to give a little more focus to warmups with an eye toward my goals. I feel like I probably have too many programmed in at present.
I'm OK with this for a cycle before swapping into something more climbing-specific, like weighted pull-ups or the campus board. Both the strength and power complex workouts are straight from the book, but it's fair to say the book may be dated. For now, I'm relying on the system boards to cover climbing-specific power until I swap into more specificity.
I'm even wondering if I should do two board sessions a week. It was very, very helpful and it became clear it's a weakness that still needs to be addressed when I found a couple sit starts where I just couldn't pull off the ground, but suddenly the move was easy when I figured out the right body tension. I also like that I don't have time to hesitate on a board.
Fair! I would say this is more focused on general fitness for now, and posterior chain activation via compound lifts and system board climbing. Technique stuff is meant to be addressed in drills and climbing sessions. Fear of falling is a separate thing—I have a class for it and will swap it in for climbing sessions depending on partner availability. The lead climbing drills are intentionally not addressed—I don't see the point in building climbing-specific endurance until I'm closer to the Spring. Does that make sense?
Makes a lot of sense. That's kind of what I do now, I'm just feeling like a bit more organization would help me progress.
I've listened to his TrainingBeta appearance, have been meaning to check out the Power Company episode. I'll check out Steve's interview, too, thanks!
For drills, I think the Rooting drills from PowerCompany are worth doing, and something resembling perfect repeats. Maybe some broader contrast repeats, high/low feet, open/closed hips. Hoverhands, fast/slow, etc. are good for very new climbers because they impart a kind of movement lesson that's harder to learn otherwise. But the possible depths of those skills are pretty shallow compared to other movement ideas.
Thanks!