Only a few more signatures needed! Change.org - Belic Bear and FurFright, Inc.: Discontinue the use of Dorsai Irregulars as a security force at FurFright
change.org/petitions/belic-bear-and-furfright...Posted Oct 29, 2012, 6:09 PM UTC
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change.org
I think that all the cons that use them need to wake up and realize that the dorsai, with their unprofessional conduct, should not be welcomed as staff at any furry convention. I have just drafted an open letter to the staff of the convention I volunteer at (Mephit Furmeet) condemning the dorsai's actions and I ask that people do the same with the director of their favorite convention(s) to pass the message on that this is not acceptable. Don't wait til con time! let them know your displeasure now!
7
Only a few more signatures needed
Until what, exactly? One hundred signatures? Is there any significance to this other than that it is a round number? Why would any convention be obligated to follow the demands of a petition over, say, ordinary complaint letters?
I wasn't at furfright, but if it was as bad as people are saying, you should be pressing charges against the individuals that assaulted you. Banning the Dorsai won't change anything; the security is, by necessity, volunteers, and the people causing problems could just as easily volunteer without the Dorsai title. I suggest you instead call for greater oversight of the security, with a formal complaint process.
6
It's a change.org petition. The number selected is usually completely arbitrary and set by the petition creator, which doesn't seem to be a Furfright staffer.
7
Until what, exactly? One hundred signatures? Is there any significance to this other than that it is a round number?
None other than it seems like a good place to start. A large enough number that it might be taken seriously.
Why would any convention be obligated to follow the demands of a petition over, say, ordinary complaint letters?
Any convention should feel obligated to serve the needs of their guests. If enough of their guests feel uncomfortable returning to the convention because of the Dorsai, then the convention organizers should feel a need to respond to that.
Are they actually obligated to do anything in response to a petition? No, of course they aren't. But they would be foolish to ignore the very people who spend their hard-earned money and vacation time to attend. We, not the Dorsai, are FurFright's customers. FurFright's responsibility is to us, not them.
I suggest you instead call for greater oversight of the security, with a formal complaint process.
There is a years-long history of abusive behavior towards attendees by the Dorsai. They cannot be trusted. I will not attend any convention that uses them as security, regardless of claims of oversight.
4
Allow me to first and foremost assert my neutrality towards this issue. I haven't been able to afford to go to a con in years, and the Dorsai have generally left me alone at the ones I have been to. That said:
There is a years-long history of abusive behavior towards attendees by the Dorsai.
I made a cursory Google search for "Dorsai Irregulars abuse." The first two results are their website and the Wikifur article about them respectively, followed by this recent Change.org petition. There are no other results anywhere on the internet containing even second-hand anecdotal evidence that the Dorsai have ever been notably abusive to anyone anywhere at any convention ever since their founding in the mid-'70s.
I can't speak for what happened at FurFright because I wasn't there, but I would speculate that if the Dorsai actually had a "years-long history of abusive behavior," someone would have said something about it somewhere before now.
-1
Funny thing about that.
Complaint from 2009 -- http://ibloviate.org/index.php?p=conclave2009 Complaint from 2010 -- http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/76550-The-Dorsai-doing-security
Both on the very first page after searching "complaints about the dorsai" in google.
7
Fair enough. I didn't get anything with the search terms I used, and I was only commenting on that. I'm just trying to approach this with a healthy level of skepticism and critical thought, and I felt like if it was going to be asserted that the Dorsai have a long record of abuse, there should be some source to that claim supplied. Now that that claim has been substantiated, I am satisfied.
3
Reddit users...gotta love them
-3
Hey I'm a director at FurFright and I was with one of the con chairs through the entire con and I never heard anything about harassment and no one said ANYTHING to me/her when we were on the con floor. Before people sharpen the pitchforks and get the torches remember that FurFright is a good con that does great charity fund raising. I'm not trying to discredit anyone but the actions of a few individuals should not make people think poorly of the convention on the whole.
5
The issues were reported to (and witnessed by) Gavin, Director of Registration, as well as Lucien and Silver Automatic (also con staff). If you have questions about my report please confer with him, as he was with us when pretty much every incident went down, and can confirm, verify and prove every claim made -- both this year, and in years past.
I love Furfright. It's a damn good con, but as I posted elsewhere, I will NOT be threatened to be arrested and jailed by convention security when I have done NOTHING wrong.
Things got out of hand.
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Redditor for less than 24 hours....seems legit
-8
Apparently, far more legit than my reports were taken.
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I could have made a reddit account name dragoneerisapoopyface and replied here, I hope you understand my initial doubt.
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Hi, Slidewolf -- I'm Silver. I was Reg Staff at FurFright. I say was because thanks to the issues caused by the Dorsai, I refuse to return.
I personally received several complaints about the Dorsai this year. I also made several of my own complaints as well. I handed mine off to the Reg Director.
So maybe you guys should call around to your own staff a bit before going on such an offensive.
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Well in my department we have a staff of....3, our communication is top notch. Considering also a con chair is in the department I would think I am "in the loop".
Also, what "offensive" am I going on? The con does amazing charity work, if a couple people complain or have a legit problem why stir up a hornets nest on FA against the con?
-7
Who said the con doesn't do anything about charity work?
In fact, I don't even recall anyone saying that the con doesn't do good charity work. I see people not wanting to attend because of an overzealous and often times extremely abrasive security staff that nobody seems to want to get a leash on. Does that reflect badly on the convention? Sure. But it isn't like we haven't tried reporting it in the past.
I've personally reported things a number of times, yet nothing has ever been done. Every year it gets ignored, and honestly I don't expect next year to be any different, thus why I quit my position on Sunday morning.
For the record: /Your/ department having good communication doesn't mean jack if the rest of the departments do not. You guys are in this together. If Reg fails, /you/ fail. If Security fails, you fail. If Ops fails, you fail. Everyone's actions affect everyone else. That's why cons are run as a team and not as a compartment.
The offensive you're going on is the defensive one. You say you never heard anything? Alright, I'm willing to accept that you haven't. But there's just no way that the chairs have not. Every year there's been complaints filed with staff, I know because I've filed some myself.
But I digress, you guys want to say the complaints never came in? I'll give you that benefit of the doubt as much as I can. That said -- here they are now, laid out in front of you. Do something about them.
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I work in the dealers department....that is my job. It's not my job to "handle" complaints people make on reddit or anywhere else. The con is hardly been over for 24 hours and we (con chairs live 7mins away) are getting hit by a hurricane. I'm not here (as stated above) to discredit anyone and I'm not representing the convention, I'm representing me on reddit, as a redditor. Chill out, this will be handled. The safety and security and happiness of the people who go to FurFright are top priorities, being a (former)staff member you should know that because it's the first thing Belic says at EVERY single staff meeting.
-4
I'm sure people are overreacting on all sides and furry drama is just seeping from every pore, but it is just a sad fact of society that there are just some people who should not be given authority, and those people are often the ones who seek it.
I'm usually happy to go along with whatever is needed for the proper flow of a con, but reading some of these horror stories about security shoving people out of their way, threatening to call police on con goers "blocking" an unused hallway, and just reinforcing the stereotype of an untrained, unlicensed volunteer security goon on a power trip gives me serious pause when I consider visiting a con. This is something con officials need to work out for themselves whether it is worth hiring these same volunteers again and opening themselves up to the possibility that fewer people will want to visit next year.
12
This. What I'm seeing here seems a lot more like a "nothing to see here, move along while we sweep this under the rug" (bad) response rather than a "we will look into the situation and make sure that steps are taken so that this does not happen again" (good).
9
What personally worries me is the thought that these people will pick on a fur with his own issues with authority and instigate a conflict that ends up ruining a lot more than some silly convention. I'm a pretty small guy, and a pussy at that, so I'm sure the amount of bullying I will let someone get away with is a lot more than, say, a 250lb drunk marine fur trying to enjoy his vacation. If these people are stirring the drama pot for some furs who are just going to bitch on the internet, I doubt they're qualified to do shit about an actual threat.
4
This is exactly why I don't attend any of the con the Dorsai are at. I'm 6'5" 250lbs and generally peaceful... But if shoved, I will defend myself. Since I have no desire to be put in that position, especially while on vacation, I avoid cons that the Dorsai work.
As I've said elsewhere:
The organizers of these conventions need to know that there is a problem, and be given an opportunity to solve it. They need to acknowledge that there were incidents, and work toward assuring the community that they have a solution so that they don't happen again (unfortunately, it appears as if they're in full-on denial mode at this point). If they don't, then... Well... As good as a con as it may be, I would avoid it at all costs.
The Dorsai need to know that they have an issue, and they need to do a better job of policing their own. They should be given that chance, and if they can't do that then they should be removed.
5
Honestly? Nobody? That... just... I can't think of any other way to say this, other than it just makes me feel a very prominent loss of support for their problems (yes I know how bad that might sound), regardless of how awful they are. Surely that's the first logical thing to do, given that you are in one of the highest positions of power and responsibility for dealing with this sort of thing, and you are easily accessible?
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Read this, at least.
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Ok, so now it looks like a communication breakdown mixed with a reluctance to take this particular matter seriously. That just sounds like inadequate organisation and commitment to guest well-being to me (even if everything else about the con went smoothly).
5
Sounds like you have a serious lack of communication between staff then.
6
So here is the nagging question this leads to which I'm betting the majority of people haven't considered.
What or who do you replace them with.
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Replace them with licensed security personnel. Such as those who will be guarding next years Anthrocon.
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Or volunteers, like every other convention in the United States.
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Remember that comment next time someone complains about volunteer security for a con. Because they will, they always do.
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I don't know anybody that's had the same issues with volunteer security that they've had with the Dorsai.
2
So the largest furry con in the usa can afford that expense. So you expect them all to? Most do not have that much room in the budget.
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All of them do... In fact, it's kind of telling that AC isn't using them anymore.
2
Citation needed. Where have you heard that Anthrocon will not use Dorsai in 2013?
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I'll have to get back to you on that, as my step dad is the one who holds this information, not me.
However, I did see their facebook announcement that they would. I promise to update you later once my step dad responds with said information.
He knows the guys who heads the company.
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Still haven't gotten back to you on this, but I still promise I will.
I asked him in person and he told me later and then we forgot about it. Now he's off in another state again.
1
Not to offend, but this really feels like an extreme reaction. Perhaps it would be more sensible to send a few emails and see if the Dorsai can supply any reasons (legit or not) for their actions. I'd like to hear both sides before I sign a petition to remove them.
1
Well put
-6
You do seem to be dramatic about the whole thing. Becoming "literally nauseous, physically ill," really? And making an online petition that has no legitimate standing whatsoever (where anyone can sign it—regardless of having attended the con). And bringing your "real security" friend there to just exacerbate the issue. (Like, what was that supposed to accomplish? More drama?) Maybe I'm wrong, but this just screams drama whore to me.
-3
Maybe I'm wrong, but this just screams drama whore to me.
Welcome to the fandom -.-;
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I feel so welcome!
-2
If you're not sure what this is about, please read:
In short, the Dorsai have been quite literally abusing, assaulting, and harassing attendees of Anthrocon, FurFright, and other conventions for years, and it is getting worse. They managed to ruin this past weekend's FurFright for many people including myself, and we will not return to FurFright - or any other convention using the Dorsai - until they are removed.