Source
r/outside•
SHDC

Botting is seriously ruining this game

So far I'm loving this game, but one thing is bothering me.

There seems to be a number of bots that just automate the work cycle to acquire currency and this is kind of ruining aspects of the game.

I've seen a number of avatars that just go to their work stations first think and grind until the evening, they then go home to sleep and regen stamina but then they do the same thing the next day.

I could be wrong and they might be actual players but it seems automated to me.

I'm worried that if enough of these bots invade the server then new players will think that this is what the game is all about and they'll forget the other elements of the game like the exploration aspect.

Should we do something about it? I'm worried that some of the more powerful guilds actually encourage this botting and therefore I'm not sure who could help.

Posted Mar 31, 2014, 11:45 AM UTC

1.4K116
Hq3473•

The UAV bots have been really bad at ruining fair pvp lately.

267
Boden•

Yeah, first they make themselves the developers, then they change the rules in their favor.

51
cosmicsans•

Moderators*

39
eatbigliftbig•

Yeah, I heard there is only one developer. He also made two more games, and you only get to play one depending on how you perform in this game.

41
evangelion933•

I think there's some debate whether one of them, the one you get for doing your quests with an evil affiliation, ever made it past beta stages.

I don't believe it was never explicitly mentioned in the manual.

34
LiquidSilver•

Oh boy, not these legends again. It's all hearsay and hyped up rumours, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.

16
wOlfLisK•

I heard that when you finish the game you get to make a new character based around how well you did. And that there were literally hundreds of developers.

6
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
Hq3473•

I never said it's a fully automated bot.

It's more of an aimbot that still requires user input.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Internet-justice•

It's just the way the game ended up. Kinda like how Eve is now. They aren't bots, they're just sad.

Actual bots ARE going to be an issue soon. They will take the jobs of those players. That sounds merciful, but our in game society and guild system won't have progressed far enough to reward anything else. They will be high on freedom, but higher on their hunger bar.

161
WhornyNarwhal•

It'd be fine if the moderators added in the basic income update that a couple players are asking for.

60
SCM1992•

Players just get given income? Why am I spending thousands on skill training if I could've just rode out the bot invasion?

29
[deleted]•

The idea of basic income is you get just enough to live/play - if you want to make more for yourself you can work.

24
spiral_edgware•

Where does the money come from? The devs built out this whole closed economy, so it's not like they can just add money to each account.

12
NSFW•

If you're assigned to the right clan at character creation you can get this already! There's an awesome Viking clan that controls so much offshore oil resource it can just pay you for being online. Only works if you joined at character creation though.

23
SoldierofNod•

I wish I were assigned there when I rolled up my guy.

5
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
weissblut•

One of my party members just made me notice that we are forgetting how one Player a while ago - his nickname was Asimov - laid some basic rules to deal with in-game, player-created bots.

Here they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics

34
autowikibotAbusing the bot == ban•

#####

######

#### Three Laws of Robotics:

The Three Laws of Robotics (often shortened to The Three Laws or Three Laws) are a set of rules devised by the science fiction author Isaac Asimov. The rules were introduced in his 1942 short story "[Runaround](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaround_(story\))", although they had been foreshadowed in a few earlier stories. The Three Laws are:

  • A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
  • A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
  • A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

These form an organizing principle and unifying theme for Asimov's robotic-based fiction, appearing in his [Robot series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_(Asimov\)), the stories linked to it, and his Lucky Starr series of young-adult fiction. The Laws are incorporated into almost all of the positronic robots appearing in his fiction, and cannot be bypassed, being intended as a safety feature. Many of Asimov's robot-focused stories involve robots behaving in unusual and counter-intuitive ways as an unintended consequence of how the robot applies the Three Laws to the situation in which it finds itself. Other authors working in Asimov's fictional universe have adopted them and references, often parodic, appear throughout science fiction as well as in other genres.

The original laws have been altered and elaborated on by Asimov and other authors. Asimov himself made slight modifications to the first three in various books and short stories to further develop how robots would interact with humans and each other. In later fiction where robots had taken responsibility for government of whole planets and human civilizations, Asimov also added a fourth, or zeroth law, to precede the others:

The Three Laws, and the zeroth, have pervaded science fiction and are referred to in many books, films, and other media.

====

Image ^(i) - This cover of I, Robot illustrates the story "Runaround", the first to list all Three Laws of Robotics.

^Interesting: ^The ^Three ^Laws ^of ^Robotics ^in ^popular ^culture ^| ^Laws ^of ^robotics ^| ^Isaac ^Asimov ^| ^Positronic ^brain

^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+cggil6r) ^or [^delete](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+cggil6r)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^(FAQs) ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words

35
wkingsnorth•

My goodness, this one is definitely a bot

54
CardboardJesusWoW•

Give it a Turing test to be sure.

16
DonQuixotoe92•

u/autowikibot, tell me about robots

4
lanternkeeper•

wikibot, what are robots?

8
petripeeduhpedro•

But what happens if a player creates a robot who has thoughts of its own? Is it fair to hold it to these three laws? You only have to look back to the 1861 version of the game on the US server to see what happens when a group of sentient creatures are treated worse than NPCs. I foresee a lot of forum disagreement on what to do with these player creations as their AI improves. With our characters being programmed and these robots also being programmed, who's to say that they can't have consciousness?

6
Liberticus•

It has always been the case that people have had to fight for their rights. Especially minorities have a hard time getting the rights other people take for granted. I'm guessing AI or the more politically correct term SI(=Synthetic Intelligence) would have the same problems with establishing their rights.

9
petripeeduhpedro•

Yeah. There's an interesting mini game called Mass Effect (it's a playable video game) in which they explored the idea of a species who created robots to do their work but allowed the SI to get out of control. It resulted in an uprising and subsequently an agreement amongst a galactic counsel to limit the amount of SI that is programmed within a robotic lifeform. I don't think that I've seen enough stringent regulation within the Outside community to imagine that such limits could be enforced consistently. I think our only hope is to merge with the robot technology rather than making them a separate entity. I don't know how the devs would feel about that, but screw em! They obviously don't take the time to maintain the conditions of the game.

8
SoldierofNod•

I'm hoping the Government guild will implement Basic Income rules, which will dole out enough gold to survive on every so often.

6
jammerjoint•

"Take the jobs"

This is kind of a narrow view of things...the whole point of implementing such a system is the obtaining of MORE wealth with LESS work. The problem only comes in the distribution of that wealth. The other thing is that as certain aspects of the game become less difficult, newer playstyles emerge that offer more challenges.

People said the same thing about the industrial revolution update, but that didn't cause a server collapse, neither will this.

6
someluckymud•

This is true, you aren't seeing any bots in Outside yet. I've had difficulty believing this for a while, but it's just how some players play the game I guess.

2
Sidetracking•

It seems as if our game will eventually reach a post-need society where items are abundant enough to be handed out for far less gold than now. However, the transition to this post-need society will be difficult as certain guilds will start kicking players sooner than others, causing an imbalance of automated guilds and guilds worked by players.

1
Launchpad0•

Its like blade runner, you cant tell which are bots and which aren't, luckily the bots aren't much risk until they short circuit from all the stress on the CPU and motherboard, flip out and run rampant around a school or such of the likes, Weirdly though it seems like the guild leaders encourage botting to keep people in their place. at least on my realm they do anyway.

51
hbdgas•

These ones are the worst.

30
autowikibotAbusing the bot == ban•

#####

######

#### High-frequency trading:

High-frequency trading (HFT) is a type of algorithmic trading, specifically the use of sophisticated technological tools and computer algorithms to rapidly trade securities. HFT uses proprietary trading strategies carried out by computers to move in and out of positions in seconds or fractions of a second. Firms such as British-based Algorates, one of the first to employ HFT, rely on advanced computer systems and the processing speed of their trades to record high earnings in the market.

====

Image ^(i)

^Interesting: ^Algorithmic ^trading ^| ^2010 ^Flash ^Crash ^| ^The ^Speed ^Traders ^| ^Ultra-low ^latency ^direct ^market ^access

^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+cggfbi1) ^or [^delete](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+cggfbi1)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^(FAQs) ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words

20
okmkz•

YOU THINK THIS IS A MOTHERFUCKING GAME?

12
BlindNoble•

Yes.

9
IsaacBenning•

Kinda the point of the sub right?

10
Samnoname•

Apparently some players are writing bots to grind for them so they don't have to pay other players, defeats the point of the in game economy imo

21
skysinsane•

That just means we need to rewrite how the in-game economy works. More bots should actually make the game more fun to play, since grinding should become obsolete, and we can do more fun quests instead.

18
Samnoname•

I agree, clan mods need to introduce a basic gold wage to stop players getting stuck in the poverty game mode though

9
Babba2theLabba•

All easier said than done, unfortunately.

2
Akiba89•

But when the server mods are also high level players reaping the benefits of the current economy, they have no incentive to change it

3
petripeeduhpedro•

It sounds like a more complicated version of an autoclicker, which I'm all for. My character has a lot of things that he would like to do more than grind for currency.

3
katachu•

Some players get trapped in a bad work quest in a shitty living unit in a bad part of whatever town they play in. Expenses or debt needed to keep and maintain their living units and families cause them to need to grind as much money as possible. But grinding takes time and energy, and the longer you spend in a bad grind, the less time and energy you have to be able to do things on the side that would allow them to find a better place to grind. Sooner or later, those players start to believe that they could never get into a better grinding spot, and even if they do get the opportunity to get out, they don't want to grind there because the grind will still be the same, with the same shitty monsters and the same shitty players ruining the game for them. Plus, their current grinding spot gives them and your families benefits that they couldn't live without.

Edit: Spelling mistakes

16
Cryptic_Tryptich•

Hey, how many of us would make it past level 35 if it weren't for bots? I for one welcome our bot overlords.

8
redekker•

As usual, a player complaining that there are other players enjoying the game in a different way.

Move along, nothing to see here.

8
KH10304•

Well, it'd more about enjoying the game in a different way if it weren't so difficult for some players to level up. Seems like you're talking about high level grinders who prefer grinding to other hobby class user activities. I'd argue OP is talking more about low level grinders who only make enough exp to maintain their current level, and have no opportunities to level up.

If low level grinding yielded more exp, than those who enjoyed grinding could rise to the higher levels that fulfilled them, while players who would prefer to enjoy the game with a minimum of grinding would have enough exp to level up other character traits.

Choosing to grind all the time: enjoying the game a different way. Having no choice at all tends to lead to more players logging out, or trying to enjoy the game by cheating the exp system, scamming other players for items etc...

In the past people who ended up having to grind for their entire 1p storyline were promised they'd never have to grind at all in the sequel; but many players these days are doubtful that the sequel has yet even moved from the concept art/design stage into active development.

2
Heflar•

botting is terrible, there is bots taking all the quest and leaving me no loot people do it because it is more convenient, you have to grind so hard just to have a chance to do a quest that there may be no demand for

7
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
[deleted]•

Buy my best selling currency generating guide! Be an elite and travel to all the legendary zones. Purchase a ticket to the moon, infinite leveling, and more! Only 25cr. limited time only!

7
[deleted]•

Just a different play style. They're just stats whores whose idea of fun gameplay is accumulating points. I don't like grinding myself (more than I have to anyway) but I don't think they're ruining the game for anyone except themselves. The in-game economy could be improved, but it's usually not the grinders messing with that, it's certain power users.

7
Babill•

Yeah grinding sucks, but what can you do... I'm sure the guilds that are running the server could do something about that but that sweet sweet PO tho...

Oh, also I've heard actual botting will put lots of people out of work in some future update... how are we supposed to compete against that? We we complaining about the difficulty being too low in some realms but come on!

6
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
andreamorim•

It would still be an issue.

These bots are programmed to always want more.

1
MountainGoatSC•

There's so much you can do and explore in this game it's a shame that some people are only concerned with getting as much gold as possible. What is it all for? The stuff you can buy isn't even that fun compared to the experiences you can have.

5
ka_like_the_wind•

Well first of all exploring and doing things costs gold. Let's say you want explore a mountain region for a couple of days. Even if it is close to your spawn point you will spend money getting there (gas, car payment, insurance, etc). If it is far from your spawn point you will spend even more money. Now that you are in the mountains you need a whole host of other things to make sure your character survives the trip. These include food, water, clothing, shoes, a tent or some other lodging. All of these things add up to at least a week's worth of gold grinding at some kind of guild, for the vast majority of players. Also that doesn't even factor in the fact that you only have a specific amount of days to leave your guild for doing side quests, if you want to keep your position.

That was a bit of a rant, but all in all I agree with you. Material things are not a good way to spend your hard earned gold, but for most players it is just not as easy as "go out and have some experiences!" Most players save and plan for months just to be able to afford to spend a few days having an amazing experience.

7
[deleted]•

[deleted]

3
maximizer39•

deep man

3
SCPH-0815•

I must admit, bot mode is really awesome when you just want to get your work done. If you've got ten in-game days to process 5500 packages, then it's best if you patch yourself with code to serialize, parallelize and optimize the the work.

3
torb•

I admit it, I've set up a bot myself to clean my house. AMA.

3
Magento•

Nice!

2
serioredditor•

It seems that the game itself is evolving into a virtualized game. More and more players spend most of their time playing mini-games, and recent updates have even included meta-coins (check the log about dogecoin/bitcoin). At first sight, you could think the players are doing nothing but staring at a screen and repeating routines, but in reality their brain firmware is wandering through meta-space, meta-levels and mini-games. Don't know if this is a good development, but the game dynamics are complex and this is the state of things. But you are right in saying that it's worthwhile to explore the 3-D areas of the game, which are of superior resolution as the mini-games.

3
ostentatiousox•

Some of these people are just getting through the week at jobs that support them financially but that they don't really enjoy. They might have having to work there, but their weekends are free and they're financially stable. All in all, there are worse things in this world.

2
13thmurder•

Isn't grinding kind of the point of this game?

2