r/nba Harden Trade thread from 2012
web.archive.org/web/20121101005239/http://www...Posted Sep 8, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC
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web.archive.org
"What am I supposed to do with all of my 'Fear the Beard' shirts?"
"Hope Durant grows a beard"
Yeah, about that...
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But bitches cant grow beards
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Damn
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Get rekt
-1
Lakers just won the Western Conference title 72 hours before the NBA season starts.
those were the days
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Yeah before my hair follicles decided to vacate from that preseason and onward
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Some OKC turned GSW fans on that thread
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I mean they could just be Durant fans
-14†
I meanthey could just be Durant fans
Why do people do this stupid shit so much lately?
-68
I mean that's kinda judgmental.
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lmao coming from a kings fan
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As much as I like James Harden as a player, I don't think he's a top 10 guy who can lead a team to a championship. Jack of many trades, master of none. He's more of a Joe Johnson type of player, 2nd round and out. Perhaps Morey has his eye on Howard next... Lin-Harden-White-Monty-Howard lineup sounds fearsome.
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Perhaps Morey has his eye on Howard next...
He might have been wrong about the Harden not being a top 10 guy... but dang, this guy called Howard to Houston a full year early
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Not be that guy, but anyone who was aware of the NBA's existence for longer than a minute could have predicted that Morey would go after Howard in the next off-season. Morey didn't even try to hide that he had been amassing assets to trade for a star so he can lure other stars to Houston. Howard and CP3 were by far the biggest names available and the Rockets had just acquired a primary playmaker.
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I don't know, maybe it was just blissful ignorance, but at the time, I was so excited about Dwight and thought we'd easily lock him down with the max. If somebody told me in October 2012 that we'd only have Howard as a 1 year rental, I would've called him an idiot.
Obviously, things didn't turn out the way I hoped :)
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Well, the dude just said that Morey had his eye on him, not that it's a done deal. Everyone expected things to work out far better than they did for the Lakers that season.
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The entire narrative around the Rockets was their desire to get their next-great Center. That was their goal in getting Gasol from the Lakers in the failed CP3 deal.
Getting Harden seemed like the move to get a great #2 option to go alongside any Center the Rockets could get. And with Howard being a free agent and at-that-time the only difference maker at Center it makes sense that there would be rumors surrounding the Rockets.
Just putting more context to your comment - You're not being that guy because you are 100% spot on. :)
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I don't get that, he was an efficient volume scorer off the bench for a deep playoff team. I think the general consensus at the time was he was talented enough to at least be a second option.
Also, Royce White being in that lineup is pretty. He really couldn't even play small forward IMO
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That comment seems to indicate he'd be better than a second option though? A second option isn't leading any teams to the second round, let alone further.
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I only say that because Franchise Player James Harden was something that hadn't been tried yet. Just to say we couldn't see the future.
edit: a word
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Uh, anybody can look smart using hindsight?
-2†
Can somebody explain to me how OKC got more for Harden than Orlando got for Dwight fucking Howard?
lol what
Orlando got Vucevic, Afflalo, Harkless, and three first-round picks (along with filler).
Even at the time, how was that considered worse than Martin, Lamb, and one first-round pick?
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2 firsts. And Lamb was just taken late lotto.
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Reaaaaaally lucky one of those firsts was Steven Adams
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That pick was supposed to be top 5 and ended up 12th. They're actually unlucky it ended up that low. Though Adams is better than most guys taken before him.
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Honestly, with the exception of Oladipo who you got anyway, who would you take in that top 5 over him? 2013 draft was sooooooo bad
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No it was always gonna be late-lottery. It was our pick.
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Oh, all right. What did the other first-round pick end up being (I know that one was Adams)?
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McGary, and Orlando may not get the Lakers pick if it doesn't end up w/in the right range iirc.
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Also, Martin was the Rockets' best player at the time
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Because ...
- Vucevic just finished his rookie year playing 16 MPG and averaging 5.5 PTS and 4.8 REB while having a 46 TS% and playing bad defense
- Harkless was a super raw rookie
- All the incoming picks were from mediocre to good teams
Now I wouldn't say that trade was worse than the Harden trade, but at the time it wasn't a huge return. Obviously Vucevic turned out way better than anyone had hoped for.
As a Sixers fan I'm still thanking Hinkie for getting our pick back in the Payton for Saric draft day trade ...
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And Martin was just a few years removed from being considered one of the most efficient scorers in the game. His only knock was that he didn't play defense (sound familiar?).
The Thunder improved with Martin coming off the bench because he could score off the ball better than Harden. We just dumped him a year later for whatever reason. Getting rid of Martin for Lamb really augmented the mistake of trading Harden.
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See, but I wanted us to draft Vuc the year before. I was hooked on him after watching him play for USC, who was one of the few college teams I watched that year. I thought he was a more offensively oriented version of Valanciunas, who was drafted higher and had more hype. Always liked Vuc more. I never got why people were low on him. Dude could play. Didn't think he'd end up like Brook Lopez-lite, but hey, that works too.
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nobody knew who vucevic was. At the time, Afflalo was the best player from the trade. Everyone thought Orlando should have gotten Bynum back in the deal.
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Apparently u/AndrewFlash knew who Vucevic was
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Hindsight?
Vucevic was an afterthought in the trade (probably just tossed in there to make the salaries balance) who happened to turn into a borderline All-Star. Also, Kevin Martin was a very good, efficient scorer in his prime, and Lamb was a lottery pick people saw as having lots of potential.
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iirc Doug Collins was pretty upset about losing Vuc
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I think he knows, just like OKC did, that he's not actually worth THAT MUCH money. My bet is on Houston regretting this deal. Only time will tell.
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No ragrets
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[deleted]
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"cant wait to see durant play in LA in a few years"
at least its california so they were sorta right?
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he basically said:
"can't wait to see durant play in (big city team) in a few years"
so yeah pretty close
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Oh thats hard to read. I'm glad most the people "great trade for Thunder" were not Thunder fans.
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I don't think there was much of that, though. It just seemed like people were comparing the trade with the Dwight trade, and OKC appeared to get more back for Harden than Orlando did for Dwight. At the time, I can see why people would say that.
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Wow we really underrated Harden.
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what if in 3 years people come back to the summer 16 HB threads and think: "wow we really underrated Barnes"
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That's interesting because I was just thinking last night about how Barnes has all the tools to be a 22/5/2 player. Hopefully he does well next season.
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Harden was already lighting up the league in his role with the Thunder. If Barnes had a season anywhere near 2012 Harden he wouldn't be getting hate.
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barnes had his moments. also was on a much better team, so he didn't have as much usage (harden played the most mins after KD + WB)
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Yes we absolutely did but at the time he was still a sixth man without any D who performed poorly in the finals. The Thunder actually improved their record the next season but still this has got to be one of the biggest what ifs in NBA history.
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At least as big as d rose
Assuming everything else stays the same.
Can you imagine 5 super teams. Cavs(lebron and co), bulls (rose and butler), okc(harden westbrook, durant), spurs and Warrioirs(green, klay, curry)
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Yeah but some things wouldn't play out the same as today, like if Rose never got injured would Butler be who he was today? Same with Harden, being the third dog would he develop into who he is today? You gotta remember they wouldn't be getting the ball nearly as much. I do however think that Thunder team would win a championship, if not then make it to the finals again
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He played good D in OKC though...
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It was a little before we realized how important advanced stats were and how mainstream it became. Even then, many people were adamant that okc got swindled. But imagine now if a team traded a guy who led the league in true shooting percentage AS A GUARD. At age 22!! It would be unanimously considered as ridiculous.
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I didn't. but I was posting on a different forum defending the trade.
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Harden is a great example of why you should trust the stats over the "eye test"
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Harden looked great his last season in OKC whether u wanted to judge him by stats or the eye test. I didn't think that he'd immediately drop 25 ppg after being drafted, but I definitely saw him being able to average 20, 5, and 5 for the Rockets in his 1st season.
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As much as I like James Harden as a player, I don't think he's a top 10 guy who can lead a team to a championship. Jack of many trades, master of none. He's more of a Joe Johnson type of player, 2nd round and out. Perhaps Morey has his eye on Howard next... Lin-Harden-White-Monty-Howard lineup sounds fearsome.
Whoa. This guy could not have been more wrong about Harden, but correctly predicted Dwight to Houston.
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He's definitely wrong about the not being a top 10 guy, but the not leading a team to a championship part hasn't been wrong so far.
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He was also wrong about Harden being a 2nd round out kind of player
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It's only happened once when he wasn't out in the second round or before. Took the most Clippers implosion ever for them to even get in the WCF
-4
Regardless of how it happened, he still got past the second round
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This is pretty interesting. Most Houston fans knew it was a good trade, most thunder fans seemed pretty bummed, and id say a majority of the neutrals thought it was a good deal for OKC
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Revisionist history has made it seem like everyone knew it was an awful trade from the get-go. I'm not defending it at all but it wasn't as clear-cut as people claim.
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It's tough to predict how a player is going to do in a bigger role. Some shrink, and others thrive as Harden did.
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Not so much revisionist history as it is the people who were right are just way more vocal.
And then we think most people felt like us. I know I had the feeling people thought the same way about the trade as I did on this forum before I realized they didn't.
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I remember I was one of those that says OKC got a good deal. Kevin Martin was houston's best player at that time and I told my friend Martin works better than Harden at OKC because they already have enough firepower. I don't remember anyone I know who predict that Harden would turn into a super star but Harden quickly proof all of us wrong with just few games.
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I think viewed in a vacuum, the trade is a definite win for Thunder. They get solid production from the SG spot in Martin, and an "upside" player in Lamb. Then, two first-rounders on top of that? All for a guy who is probably not a #1 option (and I'm a big James Harden fan).
Not big enough, u/TikTok24, not big enough (and also the 36 people who upvoted your comment).
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This is an amazing move for OKC. Kevin Martin is an extremely efficient scorer (just like Harden), and they also got Jeremy Lamb, yet another promising prospect on a team who's average age is 23. Considering that Harden was pretty much going to leave next year, they got amazing value for him.
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protected through 1 to 3..sorry. dont worry well give you guys like 12th.
Damn, good call
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Pretty great 12th though.
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Yup. Doubt we would've drafted Adams, though. BC was a draft for fit freak and we already had JV. If he was willing to pass on Drummond for Ross because we already had JV... yeah, I doubt Adams would've been drafted by him either. I mean, this is the same guy who drafted Primo Pasta over LMA because we already had Bosh.
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Can somebody explain to me how OKC got more for Harden than Orlando got for Dwight fucking Howard?
lol
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Dwight fucking Howard
TRIGGERED
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"Can't wait to see KD play in LA in a few years"
Yeah pretty much...
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Now has Warriors flair
Maybe he's a Durant fan.
This sub really likes defending bandwagoners.
I am totally down w defending bandwagoners fwiw. Who the hell cares how someone else enjoys sports.
No one really cares what team you cheer for, or your justifications for cheering for them. People care if you're an asshole about it.
Asshole fans who hop on bandwagons get shat on by everyone. It's easy to see why that's annoying.
We sometimes "excuse" asshole fans who have been "born and raised" on a particular team. But I mean, at the end of the day, that person's still an asshole, and everyone else is thinking, "I see why he feels that way...but I don't really want to interact with that guy."
Think about it, you can have the shittiest reasons for cheering for a team, but if you're respectful and kind...no one is really going to hold your allegiance against you.
Because it's annoying when people don't care when you're doing badly and will only support you if you're doing well?
People should be able to like whatever they want to who really cares
If they like teams that are only great then its not cool to shit on fans who stick with their sucky teams
By your own advice, why do you care so much about what I say?
The only things that remain relatively constant for teams are jerseys, names, and cities. Everything else changes over time: management, coaching, players. IMO it makes just as much sense to be a fan of a single athlete as it does to be a fan of a team.
I'd personally argue that a fan's allegiance to a player should be a lot strong than one they have for a team (unless they live in the city, I suppose). I live in Southern California, about an hour out from the LA area. I don't consider myself an "LA resident" and have no connection to the city itself. I never liked the Lakers, nor have I ever liked the Clippers.
But my friend was a Lakers fan who got into the team during the Lakers team of 09. What's there left in 2016 about that team he loved in 2009? Basically nothing except for Luke Walton. New coach, no more Kobe, none of the players from the 09 team are on the '17 team. So he bandwagoned another team (Brooklyn, because he's always liked Jeremy Lin - we're Asian).
I don't see anything wrong with it. He's totally justified for ending his Lakers fandom. Why force yourself to continue to support a team that you have no connection to?
The way I look at it is; everyone began liking a team as a bandwagoner in some way. Unless you always root for your hometown team and nobody else, you most likely started liking a team because they were good, or had a superstar type player.
[deleted]
Because Durant was on the thunder at that point
Because he rooted for them while Durant was on the team
[deleted]
I don't see the comment, maybe he deleted it. people on here were probably giving him shit about it