Source
r/Warframe•
Fire42uck

Reviewing the Weapon Balance Pass: The Good, the Bad, and the OK.

Discussion

Since I'm one of those people who actually likes quirky, novel weapons (read: I already had forma in most of these weapons before the balance patch), I decided I might as well give my opinion on some of the weapons and changes. This isn't exhaustive, and I welcome other opinions if you've got a great build!

#The Good

##Panthera

This is the one weapon that's done a serious 180 in terms of viability. It's not just straight-up better, either, it's also easier and more fun to use!

  • The secondary fire can now use beam mods, which means you can slap Sinister Reach on it which, IMO, is a must-have.
  • This is a fucking strong weapon, guys.
  • Combustion Beam also works with the weapon's primary fire, so you've got an amazing room-clearer at lower levels and against the infested.

##Miter The changes to this basically made it the weapon we should have gotten back when it was introduced. Highlights:

  • Hit detection is now based on the size of the sawblade
  • Reduced charge time and increased projectile speed.
  • They made the Miter fun.

##Synoid Simulor This will be a controversial one, I know it, but right now the Synoid Simulor is the Penta you always wanted. Just imagine a grenade launcher with remote detonation that:

  • Doesn't deal self-damage,
  • Has a great fire rate and magazine capacity, and
  • Allows you to place grenades more accurately in three dimensions.

That's the new Simulor. Overall, I feel the weapon is more fun and engaging, which is what they were aiming for with the change.

#The Bad

##Glaxion Look, if I'm gonna use a freeze ray, it better damn well freeze people, not apply a slow effect that I can get by slapping a cold mod on a better weapon.

  • The Glaxion is overall stronger than before, but
  • There's really no reason to use the weapon considering there are better alternatives and its novel mechanic isn't very novel at all.

##Paracyst Like the Harpak, except weaker. As a tangent, what's the deal with DE and projectile-based burst weapons? I feel like the Paracyst would be a LOT better as a shotgun, which would even give its pull mechanic an actual use besides novelty.

  • Pull feels a lot more consistent than the Harpak's, even with the charge time, but
  • The low damage simply isn't worth it, even with its status chance.

#The OK

##Attica I should start by saying Attica is one of my favorite weapons. Hell, I didn't even think it needed a buff, because the weapon was definitely good if you invested into it. That's why I put it in this section: the buff was a slight damage increase and little else, so I don't know if the weapon has changed much as a result.

  • It was good before and it's good now.
  • If you can land headcrits it'll take you through Sorties with no complaints.

##Harpak Like the Paracyst, except crit-based rather than status-based. The higher damage makes it a better weapon, though.

  • The Harpak is in this section for the same reason as the Attica—it was good before, and it's good now.
  • The alt-fire (like the Paracyst) is just kind of there.
    • There's a lot of situations where enemies are immune to the pull
    • At low levels it will kill outright
    • most times you're better off just shooting the guy anyway

##Buzlok

Another "middling" weapon like the Attica and Harpak that was always a good gun for anyone who was willing to invest in it.

  • One of the most satisfying primaries to use.
  • Suffers from "sniper syndrome" where it's niche is single-target damage, but the game is all about mass murder.
  • The increased damage is great, but the increased crit for tagged enemies seems to be additive, so not all that noticeable.

##Tonkor Putting my cards on the table: I'm one of the few that wanted the Tonkor to have self-damage, so I'm not upset with the change. I considered putting this in the "good" section, but...

  • Crit reduction isn't all that noticeable, really
  • Main loss of DPS comes from the fact that you need to be more careful with your shots.
  • It was a boring weapon before, and it's a boring weapon now. I'd rather take the Penta, Castanas, or pretty much any other explosive.

I don't have an entry for the Telos Boltace or the Ogris since I haven't used them enough to have an opinion on them.

e: lol Hind

Posted Mar 27, 2017, 8:34 PM UTC · edited

1932
----Val----15% Crit? Good enough!•

I'd put Telos Boltace is the 'Bad' category as it lost its ability to break crates in an AoE. </3

19
Nearokinsi•

Typical Hind, not even mentioned on the list as something that wasn't checked out. Like you did for Boltace and Ogris. It's so forgettable.

9
squidthesid#1 Pussy Eater•

Oh, don't worry, the alt fire is worse than the primary fire, so literally nothing has changed for the king of baguettes in the meta tier.

1
Fire42uckOPYanma•

Pretty much. I mean, it's nice that if an enemy is at low health you can finish him off with the alt fire instead of wasting five bullets, but other than that the Hind is the same as always.

1
MickeyTrump•

The bad:

Hind. Alt fire does 50 dmg, 2.5 firerate, 10% crit.

Stradavar does 50 dmg, 5 firerate, 20% crit.

Absolutely no reason to use Hind if you have the mastery rank for Stradavar, which isn't considered a top weapon itself. Maybe DE intends Hind to be a "new player's first dual fire mode gun".

Anyway, at least it does sorties fine with a good riven and Rhino's roar buff.

5
tharseSpace Latvian•

Pretty sure this was always the intention, but it really shouldn't cost SIX neurodes to make.

2
ShrekDamageInaros is love, Inaros is life IGN: WalterREBoRN•

Agreed on the Panthera, it's super good ATM. Practically woke up early this morning to use the final hours of my exp booster to cram enough forma on it to max it out. I also like the Buzlok, Attica, and Harpak buffs, all of these weapons are definately stronger now.

Disagree on the Tonkor. I don't find self damage to be compelling, I just find it annoying and explosives as a whole just feel underwhelming compared to shotguns and bows, which fill the 'heavy hitting primary' niche a lot better.

5
GrapeFroot2#SupergirlHelmet•

I say the Ogris does its job better a lot more than before. Any charge rate improvement is always acceptable, no matter what. The increased Status Chance is also a very welcome change, especially with Nightwatch Napalm.

It does high damage for low-to-mid level content, while Nightwatch Napalm plus its 35% Status Chance makes it an excellent CC weapon in late-game.

And I actually don't mind the self-damage.

3
HexalliumProud of getting Glyph•

It do need higher maximum ammo capacity.

1
HulloHoomans•

I'd put the ogris's at ok-good. The firing mechanics changes make it feel a lot better to play, but the overall damage seems lacking a bit (may just be my crappy mod load out). The high status chance gives it some potential. I have noticed my rockets exploding in my face a few times for no apparent reason (shot down maybe?)

2
RandomAssortedPotato•

At 8 forma with a status build it works up to about lvl 70 grineer with ease

1
HulloHoomans•

yeah right now i have probably 4 forma with nightwatch napalm, some status (like 95%) and maybe vile acceleration. It fires fast and furious, but enemies don't seem to care.

1
ButterAlert#1 booty plunderer•

Idk, the miter still isnt that good. Wasnt it supposed to get more crit chance? Whered that go?

2
M37h3w3Konsole Ketchup Kommander•

No crit chance, that was the Panthera.

Miter's benefit prebuff and postbuff is 50% status on charged shots. 25% on uncharged shots isn't bad either. Coupled with either bouncing disc or the punch through, you can status proc multiple enemies and/or multiple times.

And of course high slash means delicious armor and shield bypassing slash procs.

1
LordRevanish•

telos is OK. Still kills with maiming strike but significantly less damage than Atterax and Vortex is utterly useless and unsatisfying. Haven't tried Hind.

2
SuddenDethTWOOO FLAIR •

Can you still open crates with it or no? I loved the feeling of just walking into a room and letting the slide and vaccum do all the looting for me.

1
LordRevanish•

nope

1
SuddenDethTWOOO FLAIR •

So the new vortex with the cooldown doesn't hit the boxes at all? That sucks :(

1
LordRevanish•

well the second hit of the vortex (pushes them back) does but you can only do it once every attack and it's exactly the same as the boltace wave in the past so it's basically useless as a crate opener.

1
M37h3w3Konsole Ketchup Kommander•

Panthera

Sortie viable

Fuck, now I need to farm two Miter sets....

Glaxion

There's really no reason to use the weapon considering there are better alternatives and its novel mechanic isn't very novel at all.

Really a lot of these weapons fall into this boat as they have better alternatives. Does the damage increase at least make it sortie level viable?

Paracyst

The low damage simply isn't worth it, even with its status chance.

Really? I've had to quad ele every single burst rifle I have because of HCaliber issues and with quad ele/status on Paracyst it's cresting over 100% on each bullet. With a three bullet burst. Basically it's the CC Spewer the Burston Prime is minus IPS procs to dilute the proc pool. And the harpoon mechanic for easier ground finishers.

Harpak

The Harpak is in this section for the same reason as the Attica—it was good before, and it's good now.

I hated the Harpak before because between the projectile travel time and the kick, I found the gun nigh unusable at decent ranges. I hope the recoil reduction it got makes the weapon much more viable. The crit buff certainly does.

Buzlok

One of the most satisfying primaries to use.

Dam straight.

Suffers from "sniper syndrome" where it's niche is single-target damage, but the game is all about mass murder.

Eh. Between the sound and the unique mechanic and the damage buff and being crit viable I can live with not being able to spray and pray while ADS.

Ogris

I think the stats still speak for themselves: Obliterate low level content, status proc everything at high levels and throw in a 100 point base damage buff to the explosive damage. And the charge time reduction means Speed Trigger isn't a pure necessity like it was before which means you have a slot for variety with variety being Nightwatch Napalm for Infested Defense and choke point control, Firestorm for catching more enemies and in turn more damage, or Speed Trigger back in for more rockets for more damage.

e: lol Hind

Everyone cites the slow burst on the Hind being an issue but I think DE may have already solved that a while ago now when they made RoF mods increase the RoF for the burst. Burston Prime has a Burst RoF of 24 with Gilded Truth and it handles pretty much like a single shot rifle. Hind with a Speed Trigger is sitting at 18. Slower and with two more bullets to deal with but Speed Trigger might make it acceptable. Plus there's the alt fire.

2
MetaMythicalM'Lotus. •

Really? I've had to quad ele every single burst rifle I have because of HCaliber issues and with quad ele/status on Paracyst it's cresting over 100% on each bullet. With a three bullet burst. Basically it's the CC Spewer the Burston Prime is minus IPS procs to dilute the proc pool. And the harpoon mechanic for easier ground finishers.

Fucking thank you. I loved my Paracyst pre buff, but that status chance makes it awesome. Pair it with a decent riven and you have a very reliable rifle.

2
YeOldDrunkGoat•

The increased damage is great, but the increased crit for tagged enemies seems to be additive, so not all that noticeable.

Additive crit would have been the best thing for it, but it looks like it just tacks an extra 0.5 onto the crit chance multiplier. So it's really only 1/3rd as effective as Point Strike.

Which basically means its gimmick is still utterly pointless, because it's not a particularly meaningful damage increase.

It's also fucked up that they left the weapons reload at 3 goddamn seconds when they slashed its mag size so badly.

2
Fire42uckOPYanma•

I may have meant 'multiplicative' when I said 'additive.'

1
Rock3tPunchRandom Access Frenemy•

Simulor right now is broken, how can you review a broken weapon AND come to a conclusion that it is "fun" in it current broken state? 😂

The orbs don't even stack anymore the crit is cleary unintended. It has been reported as a bug AND is on DE U20 needs fixing megathread.

1
Fire42uckOPYanma•

how can you review a broken weapon AND come to a conclusion that it is "fun" in it current broken state?

Pretty easily: I fire and detonate orbs one at a time. It does more than enough damage to kill things, and the manual-detonation mechanic is something I have fun with (Talons are one of my favorite secondaries). I didn't really test the weapon exhaustively at higher levels the way I did the Panthera or Buzlok because I never really questioned its killing power.

I'm curious to see how the stacking fix will change the weapon, but as I see it, I won't really be affected by it. If you've got more experience with the weapon, feel free to share!

e: Speak of the devil, they're patching it right now!

2
CowboySparkles"THESE are spirit fingers!"•

the crit is cleary unintended.

The crit chance was specifically called out as an addition to the weapon in the original U20 thread.

"A Critical Chance of 2% has been added." - Simulor

"A Critical Chance of 5% has been added." - Synoid Symulor

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/776642-octavias-anthem-update-20/

Unless you're referring to a bug with the gun?

2
Fire42uckOPYanma•

There's a bug that lets you red crit if you stack a ton of orbs.

1
YeOldDrunkGoat•

The crit chance was specifically called out as an addition to the weapon in the original U20 thread.

The original post on the balance pass also said that those lines about adding crit were

an erroneous addition that had no effect since the unique nature of this weapon made it unclear which Stat field was being assigned to the orb output after the changes. The existing Critical Stats have not changed, and this added stat can be disregarded.

When you look at that, the fact that the retraction was not made again for the U20 notes, and the fact that the thing can apparently red crit now... Something super fucky is going on.

1
CaseH1984Druid of the Chernobyl Forest.•

Question since i"m afraid putting it in its own thread will cause the nerf handsto extend.

Was the Dread supposed to get a 50% innate status chance? Because I have hammer shot and a dual stat mod on the dread and along with red crits it gets gurenteed status procs.

That both seems too good (Crit AND status so cheap you can have both on the same bow plus having room enough for fire rate to help with charge speed?) And 'I don't want to be the reason DE nerfs it into the ground.

1
Fire42uckOPYanma•

This was fixed (reduced back to 20% status) with the most recent hotfix!

1
CaseH1984Druid of the Chernobyl Forest.•

Ah! Not terrible/actually really good. It's just an all in one crit/status/high innate damage bow.

1
RandomAssortedPotato•

I agree with you on the Tonkor it was needing a nerf.

0