r/WormFanfic•
tkioz

Danny who isn't a doormat / doesn't trust the government?

Request

So growing up I knew a lot of union people, everyone from meat workers to wharfies (dock workers) and onwards and one thing bugs me about how Danny, a life long union organiser, is often portrayed in fics.

Even when he is present and sympathetic to Taylor he still pushes her towards the government. I don't know how it is in America but unionists I know trust the government about as far as they can throw a mac truck.

This would have to be doubly true for someone life Danny who has lived through so much shit in his life and seen the government do sweet bugger all.

Hell it was strongly implied he was involved in violent protests and riots before he married a radical feminist involved in castrating people...

So why do people insist on writing him as a middle class know nothing bug who will crawl to the authorities at the sightless provocation?

And are there any fics out there that show a different side to him?

Posted Feb 22, 2018, 5:28 AM UTC

2324

Given how we see Daniel think and act pre-reveal (Taylor's brief visit when Kurt and Lacey are around), with him and his friends fairly clearly saying 'fuck the villains', well, let's say that I have an inkling of where that portrayal comes from.

And it makes sense for Wildbow to have written him like that, too. Middle-aged white collar folks - and as head of hiring, you're white collar. Working for a union or not - tend to mellow out a lot when compared to their younger days of activism and telling sheeple to wake up.

Furthermore, Worm is in a crisis situation. The monopoly on force has been lost. Cities are being lost to Endbringers, to Nilbog-alikes and so on and so forth. Typically, that kind of situation results in people wanting a strong, tough leadership. Not necessarily the current government - 'get rid of the fools!‘ is common enough and tends to lead to revolutions - but... let's say, strongly favouring centralised leadership - a government - and pulling together over Mad Max.

Now add to this the not especially high life expectancy of independents, the economic restrictions on rogues, and the obvious issues with villainy, which a father just might not find super-exciting as an option for his child (I wonder why...?), and I'd veer in the opposite direction: How can any portrayal of Daniel that has him go 'Government bad! You must fight against THE MAN and be my little indy heroine! I'm sure you'll be the statistical outlier to the independents' died-in-a-ditch quota!' be taken even remotely serious?

Last but not least, where are you getting the 'strongly implied to have been involved in violent protests‘ from?

30
Evilsbane•

Yeah, every fic I read that Danny insists she joins the Wards and she runs away etc etc only proves that she needs oversight. It isn't a perfect program, and their relationship isn't great. But as her dad it isn't his job to listen to her whims, it's his job to do what he feels is best for her.

From what I am aware you don't have to sign up for the adult version either. I am pretty sure she could be with the Wards, and when turning 18 leave.

12
tkiozOP•

Given how we see Daniel think and act pre-reveal (Taylor's brief visit when Kurt and Lacey are around), with him and his friends fairly clearly saying 'fuck the villains', well, let's say that I have an inkling of where that portrayal comes from.

Union's hate criminals just as much as they hate the government and almost as much as exploitive employers.

6
LocalMadman•

and as head of hiring, you're white collar.

Yeah, no. You're not.

1
BustedLung•

Could you elaborate?

3
sfinebymeAuthor - BreezyWheeze•

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sobotka

This character was treasurer/secretary but same basic idea - one of the top 2 or 3 guys at the union. And yet he's as blue collar as they come. Unless you're talking about the Union's lawyer, or someone very high up the food chain in a national conglomeration of unions, the guys with "management" positions in a Union are blue collar dudes who worked their way up just like anyone else.

3

Hell it was strongly implied he was involved in violent protests and riots before he married a radical feminist involved in castrating people...

She stopped following Lustrum before it got violent.

With that out of the way, I can’t think of any such fics, and that’s a really good point.

But I’ll play the Devil’s advocate and suggest why the common representation of Danny, and probably canon Danny, might be so willing to push Taylor into the Wards.

I’ve got two main points, but this post will be a bit disorganized. I blame the mobile website.


Being a cape is dangerous.

Maybe he doesn’t trust the government, but what’s that next to the average life expectancy of an independent hero? Maybe his first resort should be to ask her not to be a hero, but she’d refuse, so the Wards are the next best thing.

We really know almost nothing about Danny’s personality, besides his love for Taylor—it seems likely to me that that love and a desire for her safety would override any distrust he has for the government.

But even if that wasn’t enough, why does he have to distrust the PRT and Protectorate?


There are a good few reasons he might not distrust the government, or at least the PRT and Protectorate.

Even ignoring that, it’s possible that he’s the type of person who maintains hope against all odds, even if because all he has left besides Taylor is hope.

Or, more likely, he recognizes that the government isn’t one entity, and the parts that refuse to fix the ferry doesn’t interact with the PRT or Protectorate much, if at all. The trust you give to the government may influence the trust you give to the police, but even if they believe the government won’t help them in many ways, most people still trust the police to do their job. And the PRT likely has many fewer PR issues than real-world police, because they have more dedicated PR and a specific interesting in making the public view them in as good a light as possible.


Jumping back to the “doormat” thing in particular, I’m not actually sure fandom!Danny is really that trusting of the government. I can’t remember any fanfics in which he put up any resistance when Taylor refused to join the wards—he wants her there, but he’s willing to trust her on her own almost as much.

I can remember reading fics where Danny isn’t quite a doormat, but I can’t think of which, unfortunately.


EDIT:

Looking at some Word of Wildbow, I can say that canon Danny probably doesn’t like the government in general, but I don’t think that is mutually exclusive with any of my points, though it does make Danny less likely to be optimistic.

EDIT 2:

I’ve just read most of A Harsher Truth, in which Danny is very reluctant to let Taylor into the Wards, but accepts it because he can’t convincer her to not be a hero at all, and she’ll be safer there.

It’s quite good, but also quite dead.

11
Jack_SL•

There's also the fact that any adult wouldn't let their kids run around to get into fights. There's a dissonance involved, when your kid, who up until yesterday was a normal person, can suddendly if they so wish siege a city. (I'm exaggerating ofcourse)

What is he supposed to do? Let her patrol at night? It seems to me that the Wards program is the only viable course of action. It's why I avoid fics where Danny knows about Taylor's powers from the beginning.

"Yeah, kiddo. Go ahead fight against the gangs! Nobody ever tried that before!" /s

6

I’ve seen a few that pull it off.

I can’t remember which, though.

I’ve seen one where he knows, but doesn’t say anything. But telling which would be spoilers. :P

1
Jack_SL•

I agree, there are some fics that manage to do this. Path to Munchies comes to mind (The Heroes thinking that she is being used by her father is a meme there). It's just, I find it hard to believe that any loving parent would allow their kids to partake in life threatening situations.

1

I’m sure many parents have tried, but powers demand use, and very few kids with powers won’t want to use them.

At least a few fics I’ve read have Danny recognizing Annette’s strength in Taylor, and accepting that he can’t stop her without making her hate him.

1
qwezctu•

Because of the War [XCOM/Worm]. Alt-power!Taylor. Essentially this is the author's ideal ships and character interactions (and eventually explicit interactions). 7 chapters so far with no happy endings yet. Your mileage will vary due to the author's interpretation of the characters. Does it fulfill the OP? Yes, there are indeed no other presences in the docks because they do not permit it.

Edit.

Evolution [StarCraft/Worm]. I think it's after SC2 LotV. Taylor gets Kerrigan in her head and slowly mutates into a kind of Hybrid. Danny gets Raynor and builds Terran tech. I don't remember what happens, but Danny has a tinker rating so Danny things probably happen.

4
torac•

Can recommend Evolution, even if it has been dormant for a while. In response to the PRT declaring Taylor a villain, he takes takes things into his own hands: spoiler

3
Adraius•

The Deputy series by Reyemile may have a take you'd enjoy. So far the story has a very well-written personal conflict between Taylor, who dives into working for the PRT/Protectorate with vigor, and a father who is rightfully worried for her, but the latest big arc will eventually pit Danny against the government directly - keeping it a bit vague to avoid undue spoilers.

3
Worst_Patch1•

Yeah, he should have been a socialist. I am also amazed there isn't a proper communist cape group.

2
Jack_SL•

It's called Yangban

5
CommonPleb•

The Yangban is explicitly imperial, like I know people get pissy when Marxists no-true-scots the governments that are ostensibly under their umbrella, but come the fuck on, are you really suggesting that at a system governed by an Imperial Family is representative of communism.

3
doctrgiggles•

In America, unions are actually the party of big government to some extent, or at least reliably were up till a decade ago. Anyone that heads a union would be chosen because of their prowess at navigating bureaucracies and they would spend a lot of time and effort working with local government. Danny has been trying for decades to get the ferry restarted, presumably that involves lobbying government leaders and stuff like that. It makes sense to me at least.

2

Not that Daniel isn't heading or leading the dockworker's association (which is presumed, but not guaranteed to be a union).

He's it's head of hiring, and he's doing some lobbying on the side.

But he's not the boss.

3
Jiro_T•

presumed, but not guaranteed to be a union

From 5.4:

My dad turned to me. We’d talked briefly on this. He’d said that as a spokesperson for his Union, he always walked into a discussion with a goal in mind.

It's a union. This is just another case of fans being too clever in trying to see fanon everywhere where it's not.

2
4ecksWiki God•

Wharf Rat is competent!Danny who triggers with the QA shard instead of Taylor, and starts cleaning up the Docks on his own terms with some power munchkining. Complete.

Warning: To write Danny as a competent MC, other characters are downgraded to OOC levels of incompetence. If you like Ack's writing or fixfics, you will like this one as it goes all the way to the end to solve canon.

1†
sfinebymeAuthor - BreezyWheeze•

I had so much hope for Wharf Rat and enjoyed the early stages of it. Then it got to the Levi fight and was all "omg super-organized perfect-QA-Danny did a super-awesome-job and was the bestest-evar and nobody ever though of having an organized defense against an EB before omg-bestest-amazing" and I dropped it. There's only so much MC-wanky fix-fic one can take.

1

Given how far some parahumans can throw a Mac Truck, you might need another metaphor... :)

1
SCO_1•

Danny basically should just be erased from a good worm story focusing on Taylor (much like Emma).

I'm not being - completely - edgy here, fanfictions that change role to someone more perceptive, more respected (by Taylor), more communicative or more reasonable end up with him being a 'fetter' on memetic Taylor. Even given powers, just the zeitgeist stereotype will have him 'fettering'.

Exceptions that replace Danny completely by a alt-or-replacement Danny - there is a good one running, Imperator - normally focus on the other character completely. If someone is going to be a 'Dad' it better not be to the main 'unfettered' character.

Starting the hero journey is not the only reason parents get the fridge treatment and why authority figures are wildly untrustworthy for teenagers in fiction.

1