Total bore: How a video game prompted my thesis - Byzantium in Medieval total war two.

Video Game

Note: It is 2am, I've slept 4 hours and now can't sleep. This ain't as high effort as my usual posts.

So, by now I'm sure you've all seen my last three posts in this subreddit on the effects of Latins on the Byzantine Empire in the 11th and 12th centuries, and the relationship of Venice and co with the Imperial State.

But what caused it?

This. And if that doesn't work, see the footnotes. It's cited there too, and most of the relevant bit is here since the coding machine spirit is A N G R Y.

Byzantium is the shadow that remains of the old Roman Empire. It is a mere shadow because despite retaining the civilised ways of the Roman legacy, the Byzantines have done little to further it. In fact, it is their reverence of the old ways that has brought the empire to a point of stagnation, in a world that has gradually kept moving on. The differences between the thinking in Byzantium and the west were most profoundly highlighted with the Great Schism, the division of Christendom.

Despite boasting the world's trade capital and home of Orthodox Christianity in Constantinople, the Byzantine Empire is well past its zenith and is now in steady decline. The outer regions of the empire have been slipping from the Emperor's grasp for decades now. To the west, the Normans have taken southern Italy, and in the east the Turks have moved into Asia Minor after their decisive and terrible victory at Manzikert. The latter of these two losses was the worst defeat the Empire had suffered in its entire history. To make matters worse, general corruption, chaos and dissent has lead to some of the other provinces closer to home to rebel.

Arguably, the greatest threat to Byzantium lies in its independence from Rome. There is significant risk that the lords of the west will consider the lands of Orthodox Christianity to be fair game unless the Pope decrees otherwise. It is a true irony that Constantinople may now have to appease Rome after becoming the new capital of the Roman Empire centuries ago.

If the Byzantine Empire is to once again become the dominant power of the east, then it will first need to reclaim its heartlands wholly before encroaching upon the borders of another power. The Byzantine legacy is long and predominantly proud, but unless the Emperor can turn things around in a hurry, it is a legacy that will soon end.

Short campaign goals: Hold 15 regions. Eliminate factions: Venice, The Turks

Now, what's the issue here?

Well!

Byzantium is the shadow that remains of the old Roman Empire. It is a mere shadow because despite retaining the civilised ways of the Roman legacy, the Byzantines have done little to further it. In fact, it is their reverence of the old ways that has brought the empire to a point of stagnation, in a world that has gradually kept moving on

Fuck. That. Shit.

We just going to ignore the Macedonian Renaissance? The spread of art and culture? Converting the damn Rus to orthodoxy? Blinding thousands of Bulgarians? Court ceremony in the De cerimoniis aulae Byzantinae? Scholars such as Michael Psellus? The law reforms shown in To eparchikon biblion ?

Christ, did Gibbon rise from his grave to type this out? The idea that it was a stagnate mess is ancient and wrong. So, so very wrong.

n the east the Turks have moved into Asia Minor after their decisive and terrible victory at Manzikert.

The issue is less the 'TURKS DESTROY THE IMPERIAL ARMY' [they didn't, most of it survived], more that the civil war that followed it prevented a unified and effective response.

The latter of these two losses was the worst defeat the Empire had suffered in its entire history.

Cannae, Carrhae, Teutoburg, Edessa, Ajnadayn, Heliopolis and Pliska would like a word...

Hold 15 regions. Eliminate factions: Venice, The Turks

Okay so...this is some deterministic bullshit right here. Oui, nos know that Venice was part of the 4th crusade. We have hindsight [but they didn't cause it and if anyone starts pulling the 'MERCHANT PLOT', I will beat you with my top hat], but that doesn't mean it was doomed to happen. The fact that it occured doesn't mean that you've got to go back and view all Imperial et Venetian relationships before then under the lense of 'they're gonna fight yo'. It's dumb! Venice was a massive bonus for the Empire, as I've previously covered!

If you want to focus on any real two 'threats', it should be the Normans and the Turks, not the Venetian memes.

And don't even get me started on this starting positions map

Note the lack of Crete. The island that Nikephoros Phokas reclaimed in 960/61. The game starts in 1080.

Note the lack of Trebizond, which Theodore Gabras had retaken from the Turks. True, given that I'm not entirely sure when in the 1080s he reclaimed the city [though I believe it was fairly early, given that by the latter half he was back in Constantinople plotting against the Emperor], it could be attempting to show the area as 'independent' or outside of Imperial control via the use of rebel status. Then again, he was made govenor of the area in 1081 [the year Alexios took power].

Note the lack of Dyrrhachium. The place where Robert 'I need to secure more lands for my eldest son' Guiscard invaded and defeated an Imperial army in 1081.

Note the lack of Rhodes, where it had remained Imperial from 680 to 1090 [ten years post game start], and was then recaptured by Imperial forces during the First Crusade.

Compare the map to this, one set 16 years later. True, lands had been reclaimed under Alex, but it wasn't as fucked 16 years early as the game map implies. And this one too

Sources

  • The glory of Byzantium: art and culture of the Middle Byzantine era, A.D. 843-1261, ed. by Helen C. Evans and William D. Wixom (New York : Metropolitan Museum of Art : Distributed by H.N. Abrams, c1997)

  • Angold, Michael, The Byzantine empire 1025-1204 a political history (London : Longman, 1984)

  • Birkenmier, John W., The Development of the Komnenian Army: 1081-1180 (Leiden : Brill, 2002)

  • Bury, John Bagnell "The Ceremonial Book of Constantine Porphyrogennetos". The English Historical Review. 22, 1907: 209–227, 426–448

  • Curta, Florin, Southeastern Europe in the Middle Ages, 500-1250 (Cambridge ; New York : Cambridge University Press, 2006)

  • Haldon, John F., The Byzantine Wars: Battles and Campaigns of the Byzantine Era (Stroud : History Press, 2008)

  • Harris, Jonathan, Byzantium and the Crusades (London : Hambledon Continuum, 2006)

  • Holmes, Catherine, Basil II and the governance of empire (976-1025) (Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 2005)

  • Kazhdan, Alexander P., Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, (Oxford University Press, 1991)

  • M.F. Hendy, "Light Weight Solidi, Tetartera and the Book of the Prefect", Byzantinische Zeitschrift 65 (1972)

  • Matthew, Donald, The Norman Kingdom of Sicily (Cambridge University Press 1992)

  • Nicol, Donald M., Byzantium and Venice : a study in diplomatic and cultural relations (Cambridge : Cambridge University Press, 1988)

  • The Byzantine Empire (M2TW faction) (2019) http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/The_Byzantine_Empire_(M2TW_faction) [accessed 23 April 2019]

  • Treadgold, Warren, A history of the Byzantine state and society, (Stanford, Calif. : Stanford University Press, 1997)

  • Treadgold, Warren, The Middle Byzantine historians (Basingstoke, Hampshire : Palgrave Macmillan, 2013)

Posted Apr 23, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

34549
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Well, I tell a fucking lie.

It was my undergrad dissertation, a thesis is a PHD.

This is what I get for posting after waiting up from sleep.

84
zhokar85•

Nice write-up. I'm a huge TW fan and having specialized in the Northern European Iron Age and Migratory Period (archaeologist), playing Attila TW, I notice I apparently got all my papers horribly wrong. "Wait, these guys aren't wearing the stuff we pull out of moors."

46
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Yeah, Atilla had issues.

Like Romans researching new church building meaning they forget how to build baths. :I

Or Atilla being turned from a regional warlord into 'respawning satan'.

44
MajorianosDare I say it? Is Earth some sort of fish farm?! •

Yeah, the whole "trading technologies for churches" thing was really annoying; thankfully there are mods that just remove it. The worst part is that it isn't even CA just connecting actual technological decline with contemporary Church matters, which might be almost understandable; in reality, literally none of the "legacy technologies" ecclesiastic research disables actually went out of use in the 5th century. "Roman Ethics", plumbing, natural philosophy, and concrete were all alive and well in Justinian's day -- hell, the Hagia Sophia itself is made of the stuff, or at least a modified form of it (the church employs bricks in its construction, but only as an ordered aggregate for even thicker courses of Roman cement, which constitutes the main load-bearing element). Actually, concrete never really fell out of use at all in Romania -- it can be seen in the brick-aggregate form in the 10th century Myrelaion and 11th century Mangana cisterns, in a traditional form in a fragment of the 8th century Hagia Sophia in Thessaloniki and the 12th century walls of Kotyaion, and in both in the 11th century Ucayak Church. Some interesting/relevant reading on the subject includes Materials analysis of the Masonry of the Hagia Sophia Basilica, Istanbul by R.A. Livingston, Technological Evolution of Historic Structural Mortars by Pachta, Stefanidou, et al., and Material Characterization of Byzantine Period Brick Masonry Walls Revealed in Istanbul (Turkey) by Ulukaya, Yüzer, et al.

Also, this paragraph from the "Imperial Church" technology, which apparently disables "moulded architecture", has enough material for an entire post:

"Before Christianity, it was believed that the gods were responsible for every worldly and otherworldly happening. Investigation into more natural solutions revealed preliminary understanding of atomics, which fed into understanding of the elements. As the Romans conquered their philosophy expanded to become self-aggrandising; Rome conquered, thus Rome was right. Great edifices to their glory, and to the gods, were erected from concrete in impressively short timeframes. Christianity, and the notion of the Emperor's semi-divinity, later bolstered the self-absorbed notion of Roman philosophy and its outlook on the world - the Emperor was charged with the task of uniting the world, in the name of God! This notion persisted among the barbarian kingdoms which followed the Empire, into the Middle Ages and beyond - the monarch was chosen by God himself to rule on His behalf."

23
Chad_SocDem•

Oh man, is that some motherfucking CHARTISM?

7
Pizza64210•

Just a heads-up: it's Attila, not Atilla. The hungarian language is weird.

1
ForKnee•

Video game descriptions are ripe with bad history in general. Although newer the game the better. In case of Total war for example Rome is worse than Medieval II which is worse than Shogun etc.

84
The_Turk2Asia: Home to Despotic Emperors & Subserviency •

Nothing can beat the Age of Empires 2 Mameluke. Literally a guy in pyjamas flinging curved blades at his enemies, whilst riding a Bactrian (two humped) camel. I understand it was the 90s, but jeez... what Orientalist nightmare did they concoct that characterization of Mamlukes from?

71
ForKnee•

The camels too. They also have that weird aladdin swords that no one ever used. Not even going to talk about the fact that camels weren't ridden into battle like that.

​

Also in media in general. Arabs always have really broad and really curved swords, despite mostly using thin and long straight swords in whole of medieval era.

40
The_Turk2Asia: Home to Despotic Emperors & Subserviency •

The stupidity of it of course being that Mamelukes could never be Arabs (they were from the Caucasus or Turks), and Bactrian two-humped camels are only native to central asia, they wouldn't survive in Egypt.

​

The throwing curved swords is just too plainly stupid.

26
ForKnee•

The thing is throwing curved swords are just so stupid it crosses the realm of historicity to pure fantasy so you can't even take it seriously, same with the Frank throwing axeman that are throwing giant two-bitted axes. However the regular camels with broad curved swords is something that people think actually existed and called "scimitar". You can see it in mainstream media like Indiana jones and Aladdin in movies and a wide variety of games.

​

Of course the whole ordeal of Mamelukes being Arab is wrong as well but in this type of media Muslim means Arab, especially in medieval middle-east. Funnily it was arguably one of the if not the most diverse places in earth at the time.

24
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Not always.

Atilla's Roman tech tree is...

Well, church councils disable plumbing because 'muh dark ages'.

63
xunkuangXunzi was a legalist, not a confucian.•

So warhammer 2 is the most historically accurate total war game.

16
ByzantineBasileus•

u/changeling_wil, I want you to keep doing these as much as possible! Also, an upvote for the mention of Pliska. That defeat was far, far worse than Manzikert ever was.

64
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

tbh this isn't a proper one like the last ones were [thus probably why it's only 67% upvoted rn, ha!], more the usual bog standard 'this is incorrect' post. Thus the whole 'not waiting a week after the last one'.

But thank you.

27
SnapshillBotPassing Turing Tests since 1956•
39
DPanther_•

Another example of Snappy's sentience.

21
DirishJudyism had one big God named Yahoo•

Hold 15 regions. Eliminate factions: Venice, The Turks

Well if that's how we're playing this, fight your own fleet battles against the Normans then.

  • Domenico Selvo
33
hobblingcontractorTaking Advantage of Rome's Single Payer Healthcare System•

What's the Byzantine Empire?

edit: Just to be clear. IT'S A JOKE BECAUSE CALLING IT THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IS AN ANACHRONISM AND WE'RE ALL ABOUT BEING PEDANTIC HERE!!!!!

31
wxsted•

If we're being pedantic, no, it isn't an anachronism. It's an historiographic name perfectly valid to differentiate the Ancient Roman Empire from the Medieval one. Just like it's perfectly valid to speak of the Plantagenet kings of England even though "Plantagenet" was a name created in the 15th century and later widely adopted by historians by the 17th century.

Edit: spelling

28
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

It's valid, but for pride sake I will and do use Roman and Imperial interchangeably with it in academic papers.

15
MajorianosDare I say it? Is Earth some sort of fish farm?! •

If we're being pedantic, no, it isn't an anachronism. It's an historiographic name perfectly valid to differentiate the Ancient Roman Empire from the Medieval one.

Not in the way that it's most commonly used, here or elsewhere. "Byzantine" is a valid historiographic term in the same sense as "Napoleonic", with the same uses and limitations. The "Napoleonic period"? Perfectly fine. "Napoleonic art"? Eh, why not. The "Napoleonic Empire"? That's stretching it a bit. "Napoleonic culture"? Now that's getting pretty misrepresentative. The "Napoleonic people"? What the hell does that even mean? "Comparing and contrasting the culture, politics, and society of France and Napoleonland." ...

The issue with the "Byzantine" terminological framework is that it has gone full "Napoleonland", taking an otherwise innocuous periodization and extending it to define every facet of a people -- in this case the Romans -- after an almost entirely arbitrary date (itself ranging from 330 to 640 AD), while at the same time fallaciously and prescriptively denying the legitimacy of their state, culture, and identity on the most basic level. The term is still useful in certain senses and contexts, particularly concerning the Romans vis-a-vis medieval Western Europe (where "Byzantine" art, architecture, etc. were received somewhat separately from their classical Roman equivalents), but in others it's continually harmful to historical understanding -- the idea of "the Byzantines" as distinct from "the Romans" is as absurd as that of "the Napoleonics" as distinct from "the French", for instance, despite how banal the former concept has become.

I would highly recommend Romanland: Ethnicity and Empire in Byzantium by Anthony Kaldellis if you're interested in a more detailed analysis and critique of the evolution of Byzantine terminology and Roman denialism in Byzantine studies.

11
wxsted•

The latter of these two losses was the worst defeat the Empire had suffered in its entire history.

Cannae, Carrhae, Teutoburg, Edessa, Ajnadayn, Heliopolis and Pliska would like a word...

Yeah, I mean, losing Egypt and the Levant to the Persians and then the Arabs was significantly worse

30
Hydrall_Urakan•

Listen, the Romans in Medieval being inaccurate is only carrying on the trend started in Rome 1. Take a look at them there and have even more of an aneurysm.

28
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

This is true.

This doesn't make it any less wrong, however.

We've reviewed porn, after all.

23
Vyzantinist•

You again, Leeds guy! Great article as always. I used to be a modder for MTWII and I would always butt heads with other modders over railroading, and making the game too deterministic (e.g. scripted fourth crusade).

Also...do I detect you're a 40k fan?

16
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

I used to be a modder for MTWII and I would always butt heads with other modders over railroading, and making the game too deterministic (e.g. scripted fourth crusade).

Isn't the scripted 4th crusade in Stainless Steel, but removed in the titanium sub-mod?

Also...do I detect you're a 40k fan?

I mean, I've sinned the God Emperor for badhistory before...

10
Vyzantinist•

Isn't the scripted 4th crusade in Stainless Steel, but removed in the titanium sub-mod?

I was on the Stainless Steel team! I hated that it was an OP scripted event. I couldn't convince the guys to nix it, so just posted instructions for how to remove it.

I mean, I've sinned the God Emperor for badhistory before...

Expect a visit from the Inquisition for this heresy...

12
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

I was on the Stainless Steel team!

Nice!

5
GoyimsIt was about Egyptian States' Rights•

Did you ever play stainless steel though? 🤔

8
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Yes. A lot. It was fun.

10
theyouuwanttobe•

Have you tried r/crusaderkings, if so, what are your thoughts on the Byzantine system there?

5
MajorianosDare I say it? Is Earth some sort of fish farm?! •

Not OP, but in my experience absolutely, unilaterally terrible -- from the perspective of historical accuracy, that is. The "Byzantine system" in CK2 is like the bastard lovechild of 11th century French feudalism and Achaemenid satrapal administration, a mess of inheritable counties and baronies, cities as non-entities, private armies (and even wars!), personal politics, separatist tendencies, and local nobles as governors with a thin veneer of "Byzantium" draped halfheartedly over it. The more recent "imperial elective" mechanic is an interesting attempt to make the outcomes of the Roman succession more historical, but the methods employed to reach that outcome are -- to an extent by necessity, given the game's systems -- still almost entirely unhistorical.

In reality, medieval Romania was a centralized, bureaucratic nation-state which maintained a professional, centralized military, operated a professional, centralized legal system, administered its territory through regularly rotated provincial governors sent out from Constantinople (with their own provincial bureaucracies and sub-governors above semi-incorporated towns and cities, private estates, and village councils), and maintained a central monopoly on taxes, their collection (through a comprehensive system based on heads, homes, and land value, real and potential, operated by surveyors and functionaries sent out from the bureaus of the capital), and their distribution. It was capable of mustering multiple armies of tens of thousands of professionals (three expeditions of over 20,000 men were launched against Crete alone in the early-mid 10th century), conducting attritional wars on the scale of generations (Basil II's systematic destruction of the Bulgarian polity lasted over 30 years in total), resettling and assimilating entire peoples in the tens and hundreds of thousands, imposing unilateral trade blockades on major powers, and concentrating enormous sums of money and material where needed. In general, the medieval Roman polity was closer in form and function to the states of Early Modern or even Napoleonic Europe than the feudal entities CK2 was designed to portray, hence its failure in doing so.

Politically, the Roman state was legally an absolute monarchy, but in practice had a strong republican tradition of government by consensus for the common good (or else). The Republican ideology of the aristocracy/bureaucracy remained largely continuous in its form and the terminology through which it was expressed since the classical Republic -- the Greek terms koinon, pragmata, and politeia having been colonized by the meaning of the Latin Res Publica over the course of antiquity -- and the Roman people had a strong sense of their rights as citizens and the Emperors' responsibilities as their representatives. The people of Constantinople deposed Emperors and elected their own candidates on multiple occasions in CK2's time-frame -- namely replacing Michael V with Zoe and Theodora (the first popular election of female heads of state in history!), Andronikos Komnenos with Isaac Angelos, and Alexios IV Angelos with Alexios V Doukas -- as well as suppressing outside attempts to depose Emperors they supported, for instance in forcing the Lakapenoi into exile when they felt Constantine VIII was in danger of being forced out of politics; none of this is represented whatsoever in the game, of course. An interesting example of Republican thought higher up in society can be found in the 12th century high judge and historian Johannes Zonaras's criticism of the nepotistic and personal politics of Alexios Komnenos:

  • "[a ruler] must also care for justice, provide for his subjects, and maintain the ancient principles of the body-politic. But Alexios' agenda was to alter the ancient forms of the Republic ... He approached political affairs not as if they were common or public, and he did not regard himself to be their steward but their master. He thought that the palace was his own private house and called it that ... He did not give to each his own based on merit but rather gave over public money to his relatives and servants by the cartload"

And when writing about the prediction of a 4th century astrologer that the new capital of Constantinople would last for 696 years (Alexios came to power in 1081):

  • "But these have now long since passed, so that we must either regard his prediction as false and his art as flawed or we must suppose that he meant the years during which the forms of the Republic would be maintained along with the proper protocols, when the senate would be honored, its citizens would flourish, when there would be a lawful supervision, and the regime would be a basileia [in this context referring to a proper imperial monarchy] rather than a tyranny, when the rulers would consider that common things were their own and use them for their private pleasures."

Additionally, it should be noted that CK2 horribly misrepresents the Eastern Mediterranean in general on a fundamental, geographic level -- Italy and the rest of Western Europe are literally 2 or 3 times bigger than they should be, namely, and most geographic fixtures in the region are badly warped and slanted. Furthermore, and perhaps partially as a result of this, the eastern-southern Balkans and Anatolia are extremely underrepresented in terms of both counties and holding slots -- England has 37 counties to Anatolia's 33, for instance, despite the latter historically having a population 5+ times higher through most of the medieval period (and an area of 530,000 square kilometres to the former's 130,000).

In sum, CK2 terribly misrepresents the medieval Roman state on pretty much every conceivable level, completely butchering its government, politics, society, military, comparative resources, and even basic geography.

Sources/further reading:

  • The Byzantine Republic: People and Power in New Rome, Anthony Kaldellis

  • Romanland: Ethnicity and Empire in Byzantium, by the same

  • Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood: The Rise and Fall of Byzantium, 955 A.D. to the First Crusade, by the same

  • Constantine Porphyrogennetos: The Book of Ceremonies, trans. Moffatt & Tall (for accounting lists for the Cretan expeditions)

  • The Economic History of Byzantium, Angeliki Laiou

  • The Palgrave Atlas of Byzantine History, John Haldon

  • The Empire of Manuel Komnenos, 1143-1180, Paul Magdalino

  • A Byzantine Government in Exile: Government and Society under the Laskarids of Nicaea (1204-1261), Michael Angold

13
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Yeah this is pretty much my thoughts on it.

6
WojtekimbieR•

Also check Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project sub-mod

1
LostMaterial0•

Hey man I've been there.

Before Battlefield 1, I knew jack shit about WW1. Mainly trench warfare, battle of jutland, next to nothing of eastern front, etc. The game sparked interest in the war since Im generally a huge ww2 nerd, but know shit about ww1.

Now I've read 2 dozen books about the war. Almost to the point that watching any WW1 documentary I can notice the mistakes and other things that they embellish/exaggerate.

Im thinking of writing a paper/essay/mini book on Belgian Neutrality. Maybe about German Kultur before WW1 too, about their place in the "sun".

Also fun fact: Germans wanted lebensraum before Hitler's germany and they didnt like slavs that much in the German empire and viewed them as lazy and that the germans needed room to live - aka expand eastwards towards nowadays poland and ukraine.

5
Fydadu•

Another thing about those games is what you might term "developmental determinism". For example, factions native to the mediterranean region will only be able to build dromons/galleys, never ocean-going ships like caravels or carracks, even if they gain control of Atlantic ports where such ships would be more useful. Nor can you recruit local soldiers with gear and tactics fitting the local region in conquered territories, you have to build your own "national" units everywhere (this was rectified somewhat in Rome 2).

And specifically for Byzantium/East Rome in Medieval 2, they are doomed to stagnate technologically no matter how successful they are in-game. They can recruit Cataphracts (heavy cavalry with rider and horse covered in chain mail), but never upgrade them with plate armour once that becomes available. There is a heavy infantry unit called Latinikoi representing Western European mercenaries fighting for the Empire, they are wearing chain mail and riveted helmets from 1080 until the end of the game around 1450, never once upgrading to reflect technological advances made in the period. You can recruit Varangian Guards in the early and middle periods, but they suddenly disappear in the late period with no comparable units to replace them. And no matter how much money the Empire has to spend, they can never recruit late-game units like matchlock shooters and pikemen, and can only recruit the most basic gunpowder artillery. In other words, an Empire played well can reestablish itself as the dominant power in the Mediterranean, retaking the Balkans, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and even Italy and beyond, build economic and infrastructure improvements until they are swimming in cash and they'll still never be able to keep up with late medieval military innovations simply because their tech tree prevents them from doing so.

5
Changeling_WilOP1204 was caused by time traveling Maoists•

Nor can you recruit local soldiers with gear and tactics fitting the local region in conquered territories, you have to build your own "national" units everywhere

Mods fix this, thankfully. Somewhat. Varies on the mod.

3
Abellmio•

Super cool to see Dr. Birkenmier sourced here! I took his Byzantine History class at UMBC and he was incredible.

3
Interpine•

Wait you mean Byzantium wasn’t in stasis for 1,000 years?

2
[deleted]•

[removed]

0
DirishMODJudyism had one big God named Yahoo•

Thank you for your comment to r/badhistory! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason(s):

Your comment is in violation of Rule 4. Your comment is being obtuse as to what the purpose of this subreddit is. Please review our subreddit's purpose before posting again.

R4: Do not accuse anyone of being nitpicky or criticise posts on fictional works, the sub is meant to be a giant pedantry meme.

If you feel this was done in error, or would like better clarification or need further assistance, please don't hesitate to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/badhistory&subject=Question regarding the removal of this comment by u/Alvald&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this comment

6