Posted Apr 24, 2010, 10:17 PM UTC
Regardless of whether the guy who runs it is genuine or not, it seems a little blown out of proportion that the media would give so much attention to some stupid little shit talking website.
Is 'Revolution Muslim' or whatever even something a lot of people read before all this? To me it seems like the same phenomenon as all those so called television experts; the media wants to represent a particular point of view in a very specific way, so they find someone who will do that for them regardless of how knowledgeable/representative of widespread views they are.
Are American Muslims or Muslims in general actually pissed off about South Park? Has anyone bothered to check? No, they just find one website that happens to be throwing around thinly veiled death threats and leave it at that, because they're too fucking lazy to do any real journalism.
As you can tell, the US media does not care what the average American Muslim thinks, since they don't bother asking them. They only care about spreading propaganda against Muslims.
It's symptomatic that when Fox "News" wrote about this fake "revolution" Muslim Jewish guy Joseph Cohen in New York, they didn't talk to any real Muslims, only to the "Anti-Defamation" League and the president of the American Pedicab Assosciation.
Sometimes I wonder if we should have rules about religious diversity, especially in the US media. There can't be many Muslims working there.
just look at r/atheism. it's not just the media.
http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/bv5hc/im_sick_of_this_its_only_a_few_extremist_muslims/
I know. Almost all of the more or less crazy Zionists here on reddit pretend to be atheists while spewing anti-Islamic Israeli propaganda.
The irony with a guy like Sam Harris is that he is also Jewish and he claims to hate all religions, but there is one that he hates more than all others, and that is Islam.
There's a lot of people that pretend to be atheists out there.
I kept trying to tell you guys that I don't hear anything from the Muslim communities and they don't really care but my comments never make frontpage. Maybe if I show some boobies you redditors might pay attention to me. (o)(o) Pay Attention!!
Complaints coming from Muslim community: 1
Complaints arising from Muslim community's complaint: 1,000,000+
Seriously, here's my comment 4 days ago:
The only place I've read about this so far has been Reddit, about 42 times since yesterday. Seems like "Muslim Radicals" have outsourced their PR.
I have Muslim friends including some who watch South Park, none were enraged or anything. None of them knew about this website either. All that was out there was rage at a virtually non-existent and dreamed up rage.
Tip: Use cats and boobs, that seems to work every time.
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I know, right. When i tried to tell em i just got downvoted to hell.
I don't care anyway, it seems the whole of the internet is getting fucked over by being so gullible and ridiculously emotional about things theyre ignorant about, nowadays.
same here I got downvoted like crazy in the atheist circle jerk just because I mentioned that this type of bullshit is not the thoughts of 1.5 billion muslims and it caters to an agenda
It's false flag terror, just like 9/11. This is not exagerration, it is what is being done. USA is being manipulated to do things to muslim / Arab / middle east and to do so in a way that benefits Israel. USA is fed this stuff until Israel gets their development scheme done. It is like building a shopping center or gated community or something. Once the development scheme is completed, all of this bullshit would (will) quiet down and go away, just like when a movie shoot wraps. That is really what they have done, they have taken movie shoot techniques and are applying them to real life to manipulate people and make things happen. The Americans are so deeply rooted in emotionally responding to the movie screen that it works well to the point that people get angry if you interrupt them or ask them about the movie.
It's false flag terror,
Maybe (except it's just talk, not terrorism).
just like 9/11
Evidence?
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Are you angry? Are you angry at stupid Muslims and their stupid religion? Are you angry at Iran?
Demonize, Dehumanize, and Destroy.
Tie those all together and what do you get?
I am now atheist, but I came from a Muslim family, most of my friends are practicing Muslims and we laughed our ass off at the last South Park episode, some cringed but still laughed, because they knew that the South Park guys are just making fun of people not insulting them.
In Europe right now there is a huge mainstream hatred towards Muslims that makes making fun of Islam (not insulting it) twice as harder, because most Muslims are harangued quite a lot lately.
Hypocrisy is make things a lot more harder for Muslims to keep their compusure, an example is the last "French outrage over tricolour bottom-wiping photograph", which is really art.
To me it seems like Comedy Central is hyping all this up. Maybe Mat and Trey are in it too.
Exactly, it doesn't matter. He's just some nutjob on the edge and they are blowing it out of proportion because it panders to America's fear of brown people.
Regardless of whether the guy who runs it is genuine or not, it seems a little blown out of proportion that the media would give so much attention to some stupid little shit talking website.
When you look at it without context, of course it sounds weird. The context being the murder of Theo Van Gogh for a short film critical of Islam, the protests and the death threats during the Danish cartoon controversy, etc...
But those incidents are looked at without context too. The mindset of modern Muslims isn't reflected at all. There's no sensitivity. People assume that Muslims are like themselves, when actually they feel alienated from the world and can only rely on each other. They are aggrivated and sometimes it reaches a boiling point. I mean those events were a shame on modern Islamic history, but people use those in a non-contextual way too.
Yep... The whole thing has been overblown since the first second.
Everybody was waiting for something to happen because Trey and Matt spent so much time saying that it would, and they have latched on the first thing that went by.
Totally ridiculous. I said it before, but those Revolution Muslim folks shouldn't have cause worries outside of an FBI office.
I agree with Stewart : Fuck Muslim Extremism, but it just wasn't the time for it IMHO. That sketch was the first time in 10 years of not missing the show where I couldn't wait for him to shut the fuck up.
I hope that we will learn that the Comedy Central descision was motivated by other threats, because if the Revolution Muslim one is the only threat behind that mess many people are being pretty stupid right now.
(Also, that ex-Jew converted. I don't think that he is a Mossad agent, he is just an idiot. Still, even if he is a truly devout Muslim, it doesn't change the fact that the story is a mountain made out of a anthill.)
I feel this whole situation has shown how sheepish, especially so-called liberal/progressive, Americans are when it comes to stereotyping non-Westerners. By in large and for the most part, Americans know nothing about the Arabic language, its basic structure, its major pieces of literature, poetry, and folklore, let alone anything about the Qu'ran. Instead, they take up the egotistical stance of being anti-Islam based on their own Christianized/secular translations of the book. Then, with this bias, love to feel holy in condemning violence in the Qu'ran and fundamentalists. It's this patronizing attitude that has existed amongst Westerners ever since and before imperialism's high days. This is the very same process of condescending and subjugating the other that has led to the most brutal and inhumane treatment of other human beings. Except, instead of colonizing people outright, we now prefer to bomb Muslim countries under false pretenses, kill 1 million+ people, set up permanent military bases, and install our KFCs in newly built malls there.
Well, guess what folks, even if this whole radical muslim threat were indeed real, it's not cuz of some fundamental theological difference-- theological differences are the concern of racist bible belt slobs and faux-enlightened bourgeois secular progressives. Here's a hint: it's about the racist, fucked up, imperial project of the West that has taken place for several hundreds of years.
I say fuck both empire, unneeded wars, and fundamentalism of any breed.
But that's the thing. Americans' conception of Muslim 'fundamentalism' is nothing but religiosity that challenges Western democracy, capitalism, and civil law. Of course, challenging things such as this requires resistance. The West likes to act holy again by calling this resistance fundamentalism/fundamentalistic violence, no matter that the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were supported by most progressive liberals at the time these wars were conducted.
Supported by Democrats, not progressives.
To me, fundamentalism is stabbing cartoonists to death, and otherwise foolish law based on ancient nonsense.
I understand that it might sometimes be tied into resistance of western armies, but not always. We def exploited it in the 80's against Russia.
the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were supported by most progressive liberals at the time these wars were conducted
Citation needed
Thank you for this. I have been trying to make similar points since this thing started. There is a lot of nuance here adn I think the average American has more in common with the average Iranian than he'll let himself accept. That's the problem.
your name sure sounds a lot like bin-laden
Excellent comment.
especially so-called liberal/progressive
The polarization of every fucking issues out there is all kind of dumb.
I feel this whole situation has shown how sheepish, especially so-called liberal/progressive, Americans are when it comes to stereotyping non-Westerners.
--
Your post is full of FAIL. Libs try to overlook all of Islam's faults. "Oh it's a Mooslam thang. You wouldn't understand." It's the conservatives who are critical.
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Nah, this whole dogmatic approach to free-speech, in which anyone who does not follow Western/American laws on free speech is called a barbarian has been quite prevalent. Secondly, only recall all those libs who supported the Afghanistan and Iraq war in order to liberate the women of the Muslim world. The Iraq/Afghanistan wars are just as much liberal/progressive as they are of the conservative legacy.
This whole dogmatic approach to free-speech, in which anyone who does not follow Western/American laws on free speech is called a barbarian has been quite prevalent.
I also think the dogmatic approach encourages disrespect and even incites hatred against groups (to be honest, plenty of that here on reddit of all places). Just because you CAN say something doesn't mean you SHOULD. Just because "should" can't be codified into a fixed law, doesn't mean you can ignore decency and respect. Not everything is about fixed laws. Just because tolerance can be ridden roughshod by freedom of speech doesn't mean we HAVE to do that.
Look, I'm a lib albeit not an insane one. In my book it's barbarian to threaten people with death if they don't believe in or pay sufficient deference to your invisible buddy.
How about Muslims grow up and write angry letters to the Times instead like the rest of us?
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Libs try to overlook all of Islam's faults.
Very condascending. Are "liberals" arbiters and judges of the entire human race all of a sudden? Sometimes your chair is so high, you can't hear what people are saying.
Sure is white-guilt in here.
Sorry boss, I'm not white.
Cock-up before conspiracy. There are a huge number of people dumb enough to do something like this in the world, and few smart enough. If stupidity explains a situation, err on the side of stupidity unless there is OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary.
Remember, when you think of the "average person," roughly half of all people are even dumber than that.
Not to mention that the "Israeli radical", Yousef al-Khattab (nee Joseph Cohen) left the group in 2009, passing leadership on to Abdullah as-Sayf Jones (nee David Scott Jones), an Irish-Italian-American convert to Islam who himself left on April 4. Yousef recently stated he had nothing to do with Revolution Muslim's video about South Park.
The South Park remarks were actually posted by Abu Talhah al-Amrikee, nee Zachary Adam Chesser. The article doesn't give his ethnic background but apparently he was into Satanism and the Goth scene.
into Satanism and the Goth scene
Oh, so he was an attention whore who went whoring for attention.
Well that explains everything.
I think that the greater significance is not that it was just a cock-up, but that the trolls at "revolutionmuslim.com" were able to create a huge reaction with a single blog post. The immediate assumption was that Muslims are so crazy that they really would kill people over a South Park cartoon. They got into the New York Times and all other major media, and elicited a tremendous amount of anti-Muslim hate. The group played on the prejudices of Americans and exacerbated them.
Most reasonable comment here. There is nothing to suggest that this guy is anything other than a zealous moron.
Remember, when you think of the "average person," roughly half of all people are even dumber than that.
shit that's a bumper sticker right there
A better bumper sticker would be
"Remember, when you think of the 'average person,' roughly half of all people are even smarter than that!"
Yes... Average... when I grow that's exactly what I want to be. </snark>
I'm ready to bet that forums in Arabic language have much more potent threats posted, probably every other days. That the FBI isn't knee deep in threats of this kind to investigate, threats that we will never even hear about.
This particular threat isn't more important than any of those just because this forum is in English and the "threat" was found by the clowns/Internet Savior at 4Chan.
I am not saying that it's a conspiracy, I am saying that it's a dumb shit that said some dumb crap, and it should be seen as such.
Right but look: It shows you how fragile the position is of blaming Muslims for every bullshit bomb threat. I could easily start up a Muslim hate site and start throwing threats around and make Muslims look like huge assholes. No one (in the MSM at least) is going to dig too deeply into my background, because I'd use harsh rhetoric and I'd say what they wanted to here. Death to the Empire! Death to Southpark!
This is why in all things it is best to keep a level head and ignore the idiots. If you ignore them, they go away.
I don't really see what this changes, even if it's true.
Comedy Central folded to threats of violence over subject matter that may have been offensive to some religious people.
Sincere or not, the threats worked. The threats, as well as Comedy Central's response and law enforcement's lack of response, are all condemnable, to different degrees.
The threat worked because the Internet, Reddit included, acted as a megaphone for it.
It wouldn't have worked if it would have treated like every other fucking threats online. Don't you think that forums in Arabic language get those kinds of threat made toward American entities at least twice a week? Where is the outrage?
I guess I wasn't around when reddit helped transmit Revolution Muslim's message to Comedy Central, before it caused them to pull any content?
I thought reddit had mostly reacted after the fact, but I could be wrong.
Agreed, This doesn't change anything, except that a false radical muslim is giving publicity to radicalism that truly exists. Unless you think this one man is the only person who got upset over these threats, and that this man was the only one to threaten south park as well as other cartoonists who have shown muhammad, this changes nothing.
So let me get this straight. This particular Muslim extremist site isn't extreme enough by your standards, to be considered characteristic of a real threat. Therefore, Jon Stewart is a jackass for attacking the notion of promoting violence for a religious cause?
Jon Stewart is a jackass for having made a whole production of it, with a choir and a string of "outrage" that when on for more time than the threat itself.
This particular Muslim Extremists site exists for ages, if Jon Stewart wanted to make a comment about them, he could have, but he wasn't. He was making a comment about the post, a post that half of of the net who make a big deal about it never saw because 4Chan decided that we didn't have a right to see it.
So yeah... Uninformed twats all around.
Last time I saw him and his friend was on PBS where they were protesting outside a mosque at prayers times while every muslim ignored them to go for prayers. They were told by the Imam of the mosque to stop, but nothing could be done about it.
Do you have a link for this somewhere? I'd love to see that.
No No No
Jon Stewart, specifically said 'Go fuck yourself' to the group for 'threatening violence against the South Park creators'. That is all. Stewart didn't make a statement against Islam or the religion. He specifically, in the clip, before breaking into the gospel song, says 'for threatening with violence'.
This article is ok for 'exposing' the founder of this 'group', but the criticism of Stewart is slightly out of line.
He missed a good story.
Yeah, I am just waiting for the day Jon Stewart rails against Israeli false flag techniques. It is not going to happen. Stewart is a propagandist. The article writer is exactly correct. Stewart tells things from a certain angle and a number of topics he does not touch.
Jon Stewart is a comedian, that is all.
What you're suggesting is akin to saying Stephen Colbert is the mouthpiece for the republican party.
Sad.
I agree with you, but I think the guy's point was still that it added to the ever-present bad image of all muslims, when it might have been more sensible to just ignore the crazy fucker.
I agree, that was over the top.
The article rails against Stewart for not doing research into this organization (an oversight which is really pretty understandable for a comedian), but clearly didn't even pay attention to what Jon actually said.
Stewart actually went out of his way to say he wasn't accusing Muslims in general of anything at all.
Yup. I too was watching Stewart's words carefully because he is a semi-critic of Israel's policies. Sure enough, he directed his criticism only against the group who were courageously using 'freedom' in this country to threaten others.
I think it would be a good idea to question the credibility of this article. Some of the other articles on this website are 9/11 conspiracy theories. Definitely not very credible...
He cites enough sources that I don't think you should doubt the raw facts.
I think my issue with it is that his raw facts demonstrate nothing. How unusual is it that a completely irrational, radical member of one group might shit to become an irrational radical member of another? I did wonder about his obvious jewishness when I saw the tapes, but didn't spring to calling him a fake. I think it would be hard to say that this guy has any masterful agenda.
I don't disagree with any of that. I'm a firm believer of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence, and Mossad conspiracies are an extraordinary claim indeed.
So tired of people railing against conspiracy theories that assert sketchy activities and false flag operations are carried out by CIA and Mossad (and any other secret government soldiers). Mossad assassinated the dude in Dubai using stolen passports from citizens of other nations, must be an extraordinary example of mossad conspiracy. CIA trolls the internet and media under the guise of the not so secret MKULTRA, another extraordinary example of CIA conspiracy. The only extraordinary conspiracy I see that keeps popping up on the tv and internet is the refusal to accept that these secret agents are on the prowl and up to no good.
It's pretty easy and true to say that AIPAC and MOSSAD have a masterful, and often effective, agenda.
They make PT "Sucker born every minute" Barnum look like an amateur.
But to say that this guy is MOSSAD without a scrap of evidence and turn them into superintelligent boogeymen is going to lead nowhere fast. I suggest that the conspiracy theorists in the audience spend less time finding a billion scenarios while accepting no evidence to the contrary, and devote their time to finding one, just ONE truly damning piece of evidence that will actually stop plots, save lives, or bring justice to wrongdoers. The way to do that is to investigate, not wildly speculate without any foundational information.
Where are the sources? I only saw sources and links regarding Adam Pearlmann. The paragraphs where the blog author states things like:
Problem is, Revolution Muslim was started and run by a “converted” Israeli settler who studied at an orthodox rabbinical school in Israel before becoming a settler in the occupied territories.
and
Radical Muslim is a COINTELPRO site, run by a “converted” jewish settler pretending to be a “radical Muslim”.
are completely lacking in sources. Why are you taking this at face value? Or did I miss something?
Talking of missing something, I miss the days when reddit was filled with crazy.
Wow, you must be really taken by climate-change deniers, 9-11 conspiracy theorists, "birthers", and all other scam artists who convince themselves of something and back it up with copious links/references to dubious sources that are not at all tied to the claims being made. I saw no references in that blog post that would provide credence to what the author was arguing.
Reddit loves 9/11 conspiracy theories. You must work for the CIA.
I think you mean Mossad.
Implying there is a difference.
It seems that recently reddit thinks they are the same cartoonishly evil organization.
The fact that I got upvoted and you didn't makes me think people thought I was being serious.
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Take one look at Ratzinger and tell us we're not morally superior as well.
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I think it would be a good idea to question the credibility of this article.
Good idea indeed. If there's anything you learn from reading Reddit, it's that you should be slow to judgement.
Joseph Cohen was a Jew, but he's been a radical muslim for a long time now. sauce
I don't think that was the issue. I believe the suggestion is that he is somehow a deep cover Jew. Or something.
I'm tired of this. Just because a person has reached a different conclusion than you based on a HUGE field of facts, you subsequently ignore everything he has to say on every subject?
That is foolish, my friend.
Come one, there are a lot more outlandish conspiracy theories than 9/11. I don't really think the US government it remotely organised enough to have done it, but I definitely don't think anyone who does believe it is suddenly a madman and worth ignoring.
You created an account to say this? Definitely not very credible.
What are you saying? We should not trust a site that doesn't trust the government, because the government never lies?
You're not saying nothing, so you must be saying something.
Oh reddit, you never fail to blame everything on the Jews!
Well tell them to stop secretly controlling everything and we'll leave them alone.
You'll change your tune once they unleash the secret negro army.
And that tune will be Helter Skel-- you know what, forget it.
"everything" is a lot smaller than I thought.
Tinfoil hat time.
I do agree the pinheads making the threat were taken too seriously. But the idea of blaming Israel for this seems rather far-fetched to me. And I'm not even an Israel supporter!
The site is built around conspiracy-mongering crankery.
Check out these gems from the comment section:
"And just for the record, there is a cure for cancer but even if your doctor knows about it, they will never tell you about it because it doesn’t involve expensive surgery or prescription drugs. The only thing that they could charge you for is their time but they will have lost the power of their snake-oil scam and started putting themselves out of business.
Don’t believe me? Tough! Looks like you’ll have to start doing some real research."
or from the site:
"Then along come the damn “conspiracy theorists” saying things like Lucky Larry Silverstein (he and his children all just happened to be out of the office that morning… the office located in the Twin Towers) demoed the World Trade Centers for money, Bruce Ivins was a patsy, and the economic crash was a carefully planned heist by the greediest bankers and hedge fund managers who have ever lived."
Just more evidence for the theory of magnet crankery. There is a whole diverse ecosystem of anti-scientific, irrational tripe on the site. From anti-vaxing, to Jews did 9/11 to Doctors cause cancer. And Reddit just continues to upvote this crap right after complaining about the lack of scientific literacy in our society.
"And just for the record, there is a cure for cancer but even if your doctor knows about it, they will never tell you about it because it doesn’t involve expensive surgery or prescription drugs. The only thing that they could charge you for is their time but they will have lost the power of their snake-oil scam and started putting themselves out of business.
Don’t believe me? Tough! Looks like you’ll have to start doing some real research."
If anyone ever says something like this the best response is "that's just what THEY want you to believe"
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Except, as far as I know there's been absolutely zero evidence of Israel being involved in 9/11. If actual evidence comes to light I for one will seriously consider it, but until then there's more than enough stuff to criticize Israel over without making shit up.
upvoted because this is a similar fault i find with the atheists of reddit. in that saying you "know" there is no god is just as foolish as saying you know there is one.
sooo you're saying that atheists and religious people are both fools?
Allow me to introduce you to the Argument from Ignorance. It's kind of important.
The article didn't attempt to pin it on Israel.
The article was discussing the actions of a single organization.
By definition, this is not a conspiracy
I didn't say conspiracy. But yes, you're right I was incorrect to say "pin it on Israel". I should have said "pin it on Israeli supporters".
The theory behind the article is this is being perpetrated to further hate of Islam for the benefit of Israel. I find that far-fetched.
Yeah why would Israel want people to be against Islam? That is far-fetched.
Considering isreal's use of things like megaphone and "ends-justify-the-means" mentality I don't think it's unbelieveable they could stage or at least encourage this type of activity.
serious question:
so what?
i mean, it adds a twist that the guy is a former jew/israeli. but there are plenty of people who are former americans or chirstians or jews or some other group that became radicalized terrorists in the name of that religion to make this not unusual. this story has no concrete backing AT ALL. all there is is the fact he used to be a jew. in fact, i'm not even sure what you are implying by your heading. my point is, there has to be something more than just some unusual fact.
the blog says it's unusual he got converted because of convos he had in chat rooms. how the heck is that unusual and why does it have any meaning? heck, i learned to be critical of israel from a website too! i'm sure many of you did as well.
and the fact redditors are so surprised by this is interesting to me. because the former jew came to the same realization you guys did that what israel does is war crimes. yet you don't take his threats or position seriously because he went to rabbi school?
i do agree it does seem like this story got way overblown. but i would like to learn more. what is the history of this group? it was started by this jewish guy? who were the others involved?
tl;dr / final thought
the writer of the blog post and the people who agree with whatever his point is seem to be making the same mistake that the mainstream media made. where you are just coming to conclusions based on a few newsworthy facts. both the heading of this post and the blog post itself don't come to any express conclusions, but they pretty obviously imply some zionist conspiracy that i think is straight up jumping to conclusions.
Did I miss something here?
The blog is about Revolution Muslim and how it is NOT a radical Islamic site. It's a fake site created by pro-Israel types and they pretend they are Muslims preaching about a holy war.. They're impersonating their enemies and caricaturizing them in order to bolster public opinion for their point of view.
If these allegations are true, it means that the entire "Muslim Problem" for Comedy Central was bullshit. The threat of violence would have come from radical Jews determined to make people more afraid of Muslims.
So unless I missed some key paragraph in the story, this is a really big deal. The boogeyman isn't just a few crazies that we are generalizing an entire world religion over, but the boogeyman doesn't even exist.
The blog is about Revolution Muslim and how it is NOT a radical Islamic site.
The blog makes that unfounded assertion based solely on the fact that the guy used to be a Jew. Never mind all the apparently sincere videos where al-Khattab and Revolution Muslim promote global jihad and the destruction of Israel, we know those are all fake because... the guy used to be a Jew.
If he is fake, his videos should be apparently sincere. I think it's most likely that he is sincere, but there is still one question left:
Why haven't FBI/DHS taken this guy down? He has done everything he possibly could do verbally to get arrested. Feds are paranoid about terrorism, but this guy just walks around. How many Arabs can do that in US and not be taken into custody within a week?
If he is fake, his videos should be apparently sincere.
Well, no. If he is fake, his videos might or might not appear to be sincere, depending on his acting ability. If he's legit, then they definitely would be sincere. He's either legit or a very committed and convincing fake. (Edit: And again, the only reason to suspect he might be faking is that he used to be a Jew. If he had been born to Muslim parents we would not be having this conversation.)
Why haven't FBI/DHS taken this guy down? He has done everything he possibly could do verbally to get arrested.
In various articles, it's been mentioned that the FBI has looked into him. Believe it or not, but freedom of speech still carries some weight and these guys are careful not to technically cross the legal line. They didn't explicitly threaten the people behind South Park. They phrased it as a vague warning, like someone else might do it but not them. Then they posted Comedy Central's address. Anti-abortion groups have been known to use similar tactics.
Why haven't FBI/DHS taken this guy down?
Because he's useful for fear mongering and spreading of propaganda against Muslims.
This is exactly my point. We are all missing something: proof, or at least something more than just interesting facts. All this blog seems to do is jump from point A to point B* with no connection other than emotions and a hunch. No facts. No logic.
*Point A: the founder of a group is a converted "muslim" who used to live in an israeli settlement on palestinian land and went to rabbi school and later converted to radical islam after chatting with people online.
Point B: thus, the group is a sham and is really radical jews who want to perpetuate fear of muslims. and it is not a radical muslim site.
How can you make that jump? I can see why the blog writer would think that, given his emotion and hunches. I just don't consider that valid. I see no facts. That's what matters, right?
I'm not saying I think he is right or wrong. I'm saying it's impossible to know unless we learn more. I criticize the media, whether it's Fox or this blog writer, for not finding out more facts that can be credibly attributed, considering how many questions need to be answered.
What is the story with this group? Was it really started by this one ex-Jew guy? Is he really ex-Jew? What's its history? Is it a real group even? Are there other members? What are they all about?
Is it so weird that he converted to this ideology because of stuff he read online? Is it so weird that someone who apparently witnessed the horrors of the US/israel first hand would decide to take a different chance that maybe he actually is an ex-jew and genuinely converted?
So unless I am missing something, and please fill me in if I am, I think we should slow down and get a whole lot more facts straight.
Because if you take away the emotions and sensationalism away from the situation you have this: An American group that claims to be a Muslim group has posted death threats to the creators of south park in response to their recent episode which depicted a figure holy to them. The group either is or used to be led by a guy who converted from Jew to Muslim and who grew up in America and used to live in settlements in Israel-Palestine and went to rabbi school there. At this point we don't know anything about the history of the members, who exactly is in this group, nor do we have any further details about their back story or what connection they have to anything.
To say it's a zionist (or for the anti-semitics among us, a jewish) conspiracy is jumping to conclusions. That ain't intelligent or logical, yo.
but the boogeyman doesn't even exist.
no, the boogeyman definitely does exist:
I would kiss you if I could.
No, actually.
Joseph ACTUALLY converted to Islam and ACTUALLY hates Judaism.
He is NOT a Jew pretending to be a Muslim.
He is a convert that hates his former religion and hates America.
Do you know him or are you just making stuff up? Why should we believe you?
You shouldn't believe him anymore than you believe this blog writer!
woah. those CAPITALIZED words really make your argument.
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so what?
You guys seem to be big on intention.
Did the guy intend to advance Islam, or damage it?
There's plenty of evidence that he intended to damage Islam in a particularly interesting way.
No, this guy didn't convert his fucking religion and change his entire life just to form a group that, after he left, would put up a single pissed-off blog-post that vaguely threatens south park, all in order to make Islam look bad.
THIS makes Islam look bad? Do you remember most of the muslim world protesting the danish cartoons and threatening violence?
But could it be....crazy as it sounds, that this one guy DOESN'T represent the millions of muslims practising their faith? And if that's true, what's the fuss about? It's one guy. Pretty sure there's also an atheist nutjob out there. Should I link to his website and say "hey, look how dumb atheists are!".
Could it be....that redditors just love to trash religions?
Does it annoy redditors that the vast majority of muslims and Christians and just getting on with their lives?
Have you been living under a rock? The only reason this radical got any press is because this is a recurring theme with muslim extremists. It's not just one guy. And yes, I agree that it has been overblown from the beginning. No it is not a jewish conspiracy. That is all I'm trying to say.
Whether reddit just loves to trash religion or not I couldn't care less about.
Or threatening and then actually murdering the director Theo Van Gogh : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29
Let's take a broader look at that shall we?
-The guy who killed Theo van Gogh was a second generation immigrant. -He had a troubled education where he changed his major several times. -At an early age, he had troubles with the police -His mother died and his father re-married in 2003 -He lived in a society which alienated him and looked down on him for being an immigrant being a Muslim -After 9/11 this all was worse and the Iraq war made him angry -He turned to the one thing he had, Islam -He then went into the wrong crowd. Ended up becoming an extremist -Theo van Gogh was an utter prick and aggrivated many people and turned his sights on Islam -It angered a man who was already angry and he couldn't take it any more
Now, this doesn't justify his actions but this is usually the pattern. I mean most of the terrorists and extremists we see come from countries in the west (though not exclusively). I guess what I'm trying to say is; the problem doesn't lie in Islam. This is what the article is about. Even if the guy who threatened Matt and Trey was genuine, it is easy to blame the religion but this isn't the problem. The problem lies within how Muslims are treated and making them angrier isn't the way to find a solution.
Either way, these troubled people do not represent the billion Muslims who are just trying to live their lives. It might seem crazy but they're not trying to invade anyone, they're not trying to impose their beliefs on anyone, they are just trying to have a decent life.
MOST of the Muslim world? Say what now?
No, this guy didn't convert his fucking religion and change his entire life just to form a group that, after he left, would put up a single pissed-off blog-post that vaguely threatens south park, all in order to make Islam look bad.
Never underestimate how desperate ultrazionists can get. And you assume this was the first time he was pulling this kid of bullshit. The organisation is described as a "radical Islamist organization". Wake up!
THIS makes Islam look bad? Do you remember most of the muslim world protesting the danish cartoons and threatening violence?
Ah, I posted this comment a while back in response to a redditor who brought up the violence over Danish Cartoons:
Maybe you should realise that a lot of the outrage has two do with the underlying context of Western countries invading two Muslim countries and slaughtering over a million Muslims. From their perspective, they see the West saying "Not only are we going to invade your countries, and slaughter, rape and torture countless of your co-religionists but we're going to insult and mock your Religion and prophet TOO... That's FREE SPEECH you stupid sand niggers!"
Remember there was no Muslim outrage when South Park cartooned Muhammad (pbuh) in Season 5.
Bro, that was a hard 'J'.
fuck jon stewart? fuck you!
Not surprising at all that Leibowitz (well, I guess he calls himself Stewart these days) would ignore yet another false flag attack from a member of his tribe.
He's called himself Stewart since his career began, which was probably even before you became a paranoid semitophobe.
He changed his name for perfectly legitimate reasons on stage and off, like dozens of other high-profile jewish and gentile entertainers including Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce, Natalie Portman...to name a few off the top of my head. None of these or Stewart have tried to hide their Jewishness or promote a particularly semitic agenda.
Seriously, Reddit? This gets upvoted?
There are not enough faces in the world to palm for all the stupidity that redditors have posted in response to this whole fiasco, so what's the bleating of one more idiot? Drop in the sea.
It was positive. That's what worried me.
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No. Suggesting that because of his ethnic origin he's participating in a political conspiracy is fucking ridiculous.
heres a interview with Yousef al-Khattab/Joseph Cohen. In my opinion, he's not faking it.
I watched it, and in my opinion, he is faking it.
They call it "deep cover." Some deep cover agents for the DEA are convincing enough to bust big-time drug kingpins.
so tell me, what gives him away as "deep cover". or is the fact that people CAN be undercover enough to convince you he is.
We could ask you the same question, right?
sure could, and i would answer that I observed him in an interview, saying he was a radical muslim, in what i consider a convincing manner, with family and all. Now , and im being serious, what were the clues, besides he was once a radical Jew, that he's a operative? And since when does possibility make for probability?
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Hilarious how you point out his lack of evidence but follow with ridiculous claims without evidence.
Yes, I think you're most definitely an idiot.
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Sounds like an appeal to probability to me.
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You don't have to meet someone in person to form an opinion about their convictions. No one but the person himself can say honestly whats going on in their head, so we are forced to form OPINIONS based on what we have, secondhand reports, interviews, videos, ect. And so, im my OPINION, he's not faking, but if he is, he is very dedicated to this deception.
What a vile, filthy butthole that guy is.
Do you have half a fucking brain? So stop your anti-Muslim propaganda you stupid piece of shit. Think before you report. Or maybe, just maybe, you and your overpaid staff could do a little RESEARCH
I think this freakout actually makes his points less valid.
I agree that Jon Stewart isn't the right focus of his rage, but the underlying facts he lays out about the founders of the site are still pretty startling. I get frustrated sometimes that The Daily Show straddles the line between comedy and journalism, but everyone knows Stewart has a room full of comedy writers, not fact checkers, behind the stage. The condemnation should be directed first at the people behind Revolution Muslim and second at the folks who bill themselves as journalists full-time.
not only was the site started by an israeli, the actual death threat was uttered by some white guy from virginia who "converted".
the whole thing stinks.
Wow, most of the comments calling this conspiracy theory BS are getting downvoted. Is it Opposite Day?
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if people have gone retarded, this is obviously bullshit from a truther.
No, it's reddit. I have no idea whether this is bs or not, but it's bashing Israel, which is far more important than whether it's true.
Disclaimer: Yes, Israel does a great deal of evil. That has no bearing on whether this story is true.
Yeeeeaaah, I was wondering that as I was reading through all of the comments. What the hell, Reddit?
It's always opposite day on Reddit. It keeps things challenging.
Majority of comments on a Reddit article are not Muslim bashing? Definitely opposite day.
Wasn't Joseph Cohen featured briefly in Bill Maher's religulous?
EDIT: Sorry - it was Richard Dawkins - watch Joseph Cohen vs. Richard Dawkins
So Richard Dawkins is in on it! So Dawkins must be faking his beliefs too! Nooooooooooooooo
Problem?
It appears my sarcasm was lost on reddit this time... Or maybe we just don't like to think it is possible Dawkins got trolled...
Wow. This guy's seriously saying that there's a Jewish conspiracy to defame Islam through death threats, and moreover, that Jon Stewart is a part of it.
At this point, I lack words.
Check the evidence, and recognize that Jon Stewart is being accused of being duped by an agent provocateur, not a planner of some conspiracy.
The evidence doesn't hold water. The facts point to this guy being exactly what he seems: a dime-a-dozen convert to radical Islam.
You are arguing against the crazies. It leads no where.
I like that you were downvoted simply for going against r/worldnews's Massive Jewish Conspiracy theory.
I love the daily show, I watch it almost every night, but Jon Stewart has a significant bias when it comes to stories about Israel and Palestine. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy, Jon Stewart has no obligation to tell the full story.
So it could have been a false flag operation designed to enrage the public against Muslims. Why am I not surprised, and now I'll look even more carefully at crazy incidents to see who really benefits.
There are usually zionists behind many terror, and especially 'false-flag' attacks!
Wow makes you wonder how many other false flag/ agent provocateur groups there could be
You should wonder why the most the "American Taliban" is an American Jew and why this guy is also an American Jew.
whether he is a fake muslim or not, this is important info that tends to be left off of the media.
See lets suppose he isnt fake.. that he is radical.. when since he was also a radical jew.. then is wasnt ISLAM that radicalized him.
ANd with how quick people are to condemn muslims, i think it is a very important point, that one of the loudest radicals right now, was alwasy a radical.
Meaning this guy is just looking for a cause or a fight and really doesnt care where he gets it.
so fake muslim, or not fake muslim.. this is compelling information, and I wonder why no one mentions it on tv.
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Interesting. If this is true, we've been trolled.
No, "American Everyman" is trolling. Joseph Cohen, aka Yusuf Al Khattab is the real deal.
Generally, the converted are some of the most radical and vociferous of the believers.
Come on, let's get serious here - a Jew connected to the ADL got accepted into the Al Qaeda - and he's also the most vocal islamist on planet Earth.
...and big news and media choose not to mention anything about his real ethnicity.
Come.on.
Okay, I'll be serious. You seriously believe that Yusuf Al Khattab is part of a false flag operation? For who? Where's your evidence of that?
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Point 1. He's not connected with Al Qaeda. Point two, he left Revolution Islam and had nothing to do with those remarks.
Yusuf Al Khattab is not part of Al Qaeda.
Judaism and the Muslim religion are not really that far apart in philosophy.
So yeah, I could see some hyper-jew flipping to be a hyper-muslim.
...and all the major media outlets simultaneously avoid to mention he 'used to be' a Jew, before he became an Arab Islamist.
Ever try lighting up a cigarette next to someone who stopped smoking awhile back? Same effect.
That was very illuminating.
If he's a Jew pretending to be a fanatical Muslim, he's very committed to his ruse.
I think Dawkins is getting trolled hard here because of the end of that video. Dawkins asks him about his fanaticism and Cohen spews one troll line after another: "Fix yourself," "Fix your women," etc.. If 4chan taught me anything, it's that that's exactly what a troll would do once they see someone is going to crack. ...He wasn't even replying to him, just trying to say the most provocative shit he can think of.
On top of all that, for a recent convert he sure seems to love doing interviews and getting the media's attention in any way he can. I mean Dawkins, Fox, ComedyCentral... is he trying to get a reality tv show or something?
And really that could be the entirety of the guy's pathology: he seeks the most outlandish attention he can get, any way he can get it. Then again you have people like this who really get hooked on a certain ideal of faith for whatever reason, despite social issues in their own home towns.
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I really can't tell, but I admit when I saw the video it didn't take me to the end to start thinking he was having one on with Dawkins.
Yet, as somoene else said, the convert might go the extra mile, just to prove they are fitting in. And someone from Judaism might feel the need to go the extra mile beyond that.
I can't tell. If I was the CIA I'd definitely try to get a tap on his phone to figure it out, and then expose him, one way or the other.
he believes he's chosen - is that enough evidence?
Yes, and I find the implied status of him being part of conspiracy to make Muslims look bad pretty hard to swallow.
Channel 4 blocked a video in my country, the United Kingdom?
If this is the UK Channel 4 we're on about then /facepalm
I know. I hate that SO much. It happens all the time. I'm not too far from London atm, so if other UK redditors irritated they can't access links by a channel in our own country with a public service broadcasting agreement want to band together and storm into the guy who does the Channel 4 Youtube stuff's office and give him what for, then I'm up entirely up for it.
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This is what Joseph Cohen has said, which the media has interpreted as death threats:
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/revolution-muslim-looks-like-a-cia-operationa-new-version-of-an-old-mockingbird/
Even so he may have made death threats (I haven't looked into it), however I'd just like to also point out posting a video link does not prove he is actually a radical Muslim convert and the argument that he may be 'undercover' still has a lot of weight behind it.
No it doesn't.
The man has cut himself off from his birth family entirely, and has been living as a Arab-speaking Muslim with a Muslim wife and family with virtually no media attention for over a decade.
You'd believe that he did all of this in the hopes of the mainstream media maybe one day pumping a couple inflammatory statements of his into a slow news cycle?
You'd need to be very close to insane to buy that.
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We don't know any of that and you're a proven Zionist shill.
That short interview did not convince me that Cohen wasn't just acting. In fact, it moves me more towards the idea he was a sham.
I have some prime-A real estate to sell you.
Seriously, you think a Jew or Christian is going to convert to this cretin Mohammed is Jezus bullshit, where it is illegal to hold a fork with the left hand because that is the hand you wipe shit with? THERE IS A WHOLE SHITZLOAD of sophisticated westerners doing false flag and keeping a straight face while doing it. Why? Because it makes the whole US society move, the US society!!! They join the military!!! They actually go and do the ground and air operations!!!! And they even pay for it out of their wallets!!!!
Dawkins sat there like a little bitch and let him slap him around with that garbage.
That man must have a much longer fuse than I do. I can't make it through a couple minutes of him talking to Wendy Wright without really wanted to punch someone. He was calm the entire time. When that ignoranus was saying those things, Dawkins started getting pissed. I would have already lost my shit. The patience he must have.
That's called self-mastery and I much admire it.
I agree. The author seems to be pretty upset that Jon Stewart didnt come to the same conclusion he did (that we've been trolled). Almost sounds like a conspiracy theory. Until there is more substantial evidence that to back up his theory, I have to say that the author sounds more like Glenn Beck than Jon does.
For fucking fuck's sake, what does this mean?
"Almost sounds like we should dismiss it without considering the evidence?"
"Almost sounds like the guy is a complete lunatic?"
You'll have to fine-tune your rhetoric, my friend, as your credibility has dropped to zero.
Where are the sources? I only saw sources and links regarding Adam Pearlmann. The paragraphs where the blog author states things like:
and
are completely lacking in sources. Why are you taking this at face value? Or did I miss something?
Not to mention that he was a hassidic Jew. Hassidim are incredibly anti-Zionist. My guess is that the settlement he was on was one where the people only supported the Israeli government because they got cheap housing out of it.
For you, kind internet friend, anything. The article appears to be the ramblings of an angry author. While I am not ready to discount what he is saying as false, I am not ready to accept it as true based on his references and the timing of the media stunts from the radical organization. His theory is certainly an interesting take on things and has a sort of consumable formulaic junk-food-media feel, but I don't think it qualifies as a full blow conspiracy theory. There would need to be loads more merit-less claims and more dotted lines drawn between coincidences. Having clarified my stance, can I have my credibility back, so I can post confidently on the internet again?
It's a 9/11 conspiracy site:
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/for-zz/
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/category/911-investigations/
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At least we can be sure that we've been trolled. At least some things are certain. At least some things are true.
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Comedy Central has been trolled and thus the whole situation escalated.
We have been trolled ... but not by the media ... http://www.areyouatroll.com/reddit/Conflag/
You are a troll.
Hey I know you ... don't you live under the bridge next to my house?
http://www.areyouatroll.com/reddit/mredd/
It's a 9/11 conspiracy site:
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/for-zz/
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/category/911-investigations/
well - except that this is hardly the only example of crazy muslim radicals.
ok, so MAYBE this case is a scam. what about the others? wasn't that danish cartoonist murdered?
the author of that article seems to have some kind of ax to grind with the dailyshow.
Uhm, no. Here's a list of people (edit: in a Western society) assassinated by radical Islamists for something they published that I know of. Feel free to add to it:
I see, it's diversion time. Why do you want to talk about something else?
i don't want to talk about something else.
Stewart was slamming fundamental islam. even IF this one example is a setup, fundamental islam does exist, and it is evil, and it does do these kinds of things.
Stewart was completely in the right.
Of course there is but why do you want to divert attention away from this issue right now?