If Only More Churches Were Like This
Posted Oct 1, 2010, 10:03 PM UTC
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Most Christians I know are like this. I find Reddit tends to focus on the bad apples and think they represent Christianity as a whole.
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Reddit tends to do that with just about everything.
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That's because reddit makes the same mistake those on the right make:
Christianity =/= Political christianity
Islam =/= islamism
There's an overlap ofcourse, but the two aren't synonymous. It's the difference between turkey and afghanistan.
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I thought you want to compare turkey and chicken
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I think it's funny that the leftist and atheist zealots have the exact same personality type as right wing evangelical Christians. Most people were born into their belief systems.
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Most of the atheists on reddit were originally mormons or fundamentalist christians. It's hardly surprising that they should be so radical.
Most atheists I know, me included, just don't care that much. God probably doesn't exist, church is a waste of time, lets spend sunday doing something I like. Hurrah.
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Most of the atheists on reddit were originally mormons or fundamentalist christians.
Interesting. I know a redditor who was like a southern bible camp christian, and now he's a virulent atheists who doesn't always know what he's talking about and is way too smug. Do you know anyone who was a mormon or fundamentalist christian?
(I'm an atheist, by the way.)
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Most Christians don't seem to realize that these "bad apples" represent them to everyone not-Christian.
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Actually, I think a lot of Christians are more self aware than that. It is a frequent lament among Christians I know that the "voice" of Christianity that most non-Christians hear is so extreme. But unfortunately, many less-extreme Christians feel that they do not have the power to change the tenor of the public dialogue about Christianity.
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Then try this: whenever you hear that, ask them when the last time they actually tried to argue with these people. When was the last time they actually dared to take a stand? I don't mean in private to their friends. I mean in public, on the streetcorner, next to the guy screaming fire and brimstone.
Now some old wisdom:
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?
It starts with one person opening their goddamn mouth. One Christian, not the atheists who usually argue with these pricks. One person is all it takes. Someone has to take the first step.
As for the ones who don't want to disagree with another Christian in public, give them Hell.
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Most Christians don't identify themselves as a collective like a political party. Religion is a personal choice and a personal practice. Moderate Christians have no real drive to "reign in" the bad apples because they don't really think about things that way.
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That's because they have the luxury of letting themselves blend into the crowd. Lucky fucks.
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Then why do so many believers go to church if its such a personal practice? If what you are saying were true, Christian worship would be more like Japanese Buddhism: mostly families or small groups meeting in homes, and worshiping in personal ways, not group-think confirmation sessions.
The Christian way is to avoid confrontation, and pray for god to interceed on their behalf.. Jesus says to let the weeds grow with the crop.
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Most Christians (for sufficiently lax definitions of "Christian") out in CA voted for Prop 8. I don't believe you're correct.
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Most Conservatives (for sufficiently lax definitions of "Conservatives") out in CA voted for Prop 8. I don't believe you're correct.
FTFY
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And you don't think that most of the people voting for this were doing so based on religious beliefs? Or influenced because of religious beliefs? You don't think that of the 70% of the people who voted for it, they weren't Christian?
Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you did the math and found it's impossible for 70% of CA to vote for something and not have a majority of people in CA who believe in the divinity of Jesus to have voted in favor.
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That's the kind of church I would go. No judgment, no condemnations, just a good heart.
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It's the kind of church I go to. I'm glad I was brought up in this kind of church. I can guarentee if I grew up as a conservative catholic, I'd probably be an atheist now.
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No condemnations, but a good heart won't get you into heaven. Even on that sign, no condemnation, but if there is sin, you have to be saved from it.
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Woh!!! I am doomed, ain't I?
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The Bible teaches that people within the church are supposed to judge each other and throw out those who are sinning without repentance. So, I suppose you will have to find a church that does not use Bibles.
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Really? That's shocker.
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You want to find a church with a "good heart", who won't condemn or judge you. Impossible. It's an oxymoron. The Christian Bible teaches that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and will suffer eternal torment if they do not repent and turn away from their sins and believe in Jesus alone for salvation. If a church truly had a "good heart", they would love you enough to teach you what their scripture actually teaches, which, in the case of the Christian Bible, is absolute condemnation and judgment of sinners and a warning about what happens to those who do not repent and follow Jesus.
What you appear to want is a church that makes you "feel good" and makes you warm and fuzzy. However, a church like that does not truly care about you or love you. They are leading you straight to hell according to their own holy scripture. The Bible teaches this message and they are purposefully withholding it from you so they won't "offend" you. This is akin to seeing a doctor who knows you have cancer, but doesn't tell you or treat the cancer for fear of upsetting you. That's not a doctor I'd want to visit.
And to those who are downvoting me because they think I am pulling this stuff our of my arse, here are the specific scriptures about judging those WITHIN the church body:
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 - What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
2 Thessalonians 3:5-7 - "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us"
Matthew 18:15-20 - "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses'. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
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That is if you are a strict follower of the Bible. Your logic is based on the idea that the Bible should be interpreted literally. Many Christians see the Bible as holy, yet also a book that has to be understood in context. Obviously a lot of the "rules" in the bible reflected the society that it was written in, and as you know, societies change and so must the interpretation of the Bible.
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Jesus has basically overridden all rules in the bible with 2 rules:
And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)
If you follow these two commandments then I would think the rest is good to read but moot none-the-less.
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Downvoted because it's rants like yours that turn people away from Christ. People who love pointing out in the sin in others always have a lot of sin going on in their own life.
The concept is pretty simple;
- Show people the love of God
- Share the Good News
- Watch as GOD changes them
Sounds like you spend a lot of time sticking your nose into other people's business. Good luck with that. I'm sure you have a lot of friends at church.
Matthew 7 Judging Others "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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Hillel Jewish Student Center.
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Thanks. I was trying to read that myself.
(Look in the rear-view mirror, folks.)
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ɹǝʇuǝƆ ʇuǝpnʇS ɥsıʍǝſ lǝllıH
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i think what you mean is what if Christians were more like Christ and less like Paul...
edit: i can't help but think if i just shaved off the 'and less like Paul...' how many more upboats i would have and how many less comments i would have received...
(sigh) well, you live and you learn...
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What's wrong with Paul?
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He only writes silly love songs.
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You'd think the world has had enough of that.
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He was a misogynist.
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You are aware that the entire Jewish world was mysogynistic at that point in history, right?
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i am. and i can loosely see the line your making as well. nevertheless, my point is that if you read Christ's words and his teachings, you can clearly see what guy was thinking. He left a pretty good blue print. Then a few hundred years later, Paul comes along, and suddenly, there are all these caveats and women are devalued as members of the church. A man has more value, because only he can truly get buddy-buddy with God.
but that's just my two cents. ching
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really?
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Whoever this John fellow is, he was lucky to have been on Jesus' good side.
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Hooray for Blacksburg!
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:D
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Lets go Hokies!!
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[deleted]
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Across the street from Hillel?
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If only there were less churches...
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I took this one a few years ago in Dublin, Ireland. I found it somewhat beautiful, despite being a rather militant atheist. And yes, it would help if more churches were like that.
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You never really know what they mean exactly. When I was in High School I knew this Mormon girl and she was very, very Mormon. I asked her during a math class we had together. "If god loves all people then why does the Mormon church excommunicate gays, he must not love all people then right?" her response was "No, you're wrong, God DOES love ALL people, gays just aren't human"
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I wish more churches were like my local one. It was turned into a music venue :D
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At my local church it only says "Jesus came...".
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If only more churches were like this, I still wouldn't go.
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I haven't read much of this thread. Am I the only one?
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I still wouldn't support any of their indoctrinating, but I'd tolerate them better.
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Why cant everyone just be loving people? Why should religion make a person more or less good?
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If more churches had monster faces in the staind glass windows?
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Most churches ARE like that.
I think my title was misleading. I meant not to imply that this wasn't the norm, but that there should be less extremists than there currently are. Sorry for the confusion.
No apologies necessary. Titles can be like that on reddit.
It's true. One is too many.
Though I'd settle for the churches that aren't like that just keeping it off the TV and radio.
How many extremists are there? Sampling bias. The media portrays extremism as though it is a rampant plague, disregarding the thousands of churches of all faiths across the world that don't tolerate extremists.
I'm not upset by your post, but I'd just like to point out my hatred to attention-whoring extremism and the media that feeds it.
You don't need to apologize. Your title didn't say : 'if only MOST churches were like this'.
Came here to say the same.
That's what I came to say too.
I said that too and then came.
We should start a club.
Wake up Sheeple
Maybe in New Hampshire.
Quite a sigh of relief to see this at the top, actually. Just because reddit posts a one-sided story of churches/religion does not mean it's the norm, or even close. I'd actually hope this would be common knowledge being that there is constant talk on how only eye/ear-catching news makes headlines, not the daily/usual grind.
You could probably say that many monarchies where good to their subjects, but they still wouldn't be better than something like democracy.
I think if "more churches were like this" it would only be a superficial difference. The core of religions like Christianity is still corrosive.
That core being...?
Tribalism.
Aye, all residents of the world should be members of a homogenous master race.
gonna throw some /s on the end of that biznatch in case you didn't notice
The idea that you're subject to the dictate of an overlord. that he owns your body, and that even your thoughts are subject to his judgment, and that you will be punished in the worst imaginable way if you dare to appose him (all of this dictate brought to you by the church of course). The idea that allegiance is more important than honesty, or integrity.
I could go on but a good example of this is the dishonesty is found in that church signs itself. they just cut the sentement of John 3:16 in half. if you read it you'll find it says jesus is here to save you (from his dad/himself) and not condemn you because people who don't belive already condemned themselves
That is the same twisted logic that an abusive husband uses when he says "she made me hit her", and that sign employs the same manipulative tactics you see from people like fox news (who learned it from Christianity in the first place)
I take back my concession that this church is some how nicer than others. unless they are trying to say that there is no hell and that their "god" is just asking you to follow his law, but I'm sure that is not what they are trying to say, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn they still impose the idea that non-Christians are not entirely human.
Christianity is a sick twisted perversion through and through.
A sick and twisted perversion that feeds the hungry, clothes the poor and helps bring medical care to the sick. For all it's obvious warts (that come with being made up of broken people) when it comes to good deeds atheists can't hold a candle to Christians.
....are they?
Yes. Religion, like many other institutions, isn't immune to the problem of "the people with the most extreme opinions have the loudest voices."
what about up votes?
Absolutely.
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