Source
r/HPReverb•
CakeMagic

G2 tracking vs Lighthouse (Vive) side by side comparison [Beat Saber Expert]

Hi again, the last thread I made was First time VR owner review part 2 - 10 days later

And in the second time I made the review, I mentioned that the tracking of Reverb G2 was 'good enough', but it was still noticeably worse than Lighthouse Tracking. *edit: meaning to say, even while it's 'noticeably' worse, it's still good enough for almost all the games out there and you don't need more than that.

So I decided to make an absolute direct comparison between the two, now that I own a Vive (and Vive Trackers) as well. Here's the link to the video: https://youtu.be/uhbzq3xn1Ro

Both tests are done under exact same conditions. The only difference between the two are the controllers (and the tracking required for it).

Don't mind the score, I just took the first full combo I got. The current personal 'high score' of mine is made with the Vive controller. However, I'm so familiair with this song that the controller probably doesn't matter anymore.

For this difficulty, G2 Tracking is 'good enough' as you can see, but it's noticeably worse. The G2 falls short if you swing your blade outside the tracking volume and hold it there at an awkward position for longer than 2 seconds. If you don't recalibrate (by looking at it) and you need to swing the controller in (the tracking volume) at a very different angle that you left it at, it'll have problems. It does have decent prediction algorithm when you swing outside, but you only have about 1 to 2 seconds time to place your controller at the correct position (outside of the tracking volume) if you want to swing your controller back into the tracking volume at the correct angle.

tl;dr: At least for Expert K/DA song, I have very similar score between the two tracking

Posted Dec 11, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC · edited

1425
virtueavatar•

I'm having a lot of trouble seeing the differences.

5
CakeMagicOP•

Indeed, it's not as 'garbage' as people make it out to be lol.

17
servili007•

Welcome to VR/gaming subreddits....it gets incredibly tiring.

9
Hullebuh•

Especially if some people don't even bother trying the G2 controllers and directly try to get their knuckles to work only to then whine about it not working properly.

1
omegabob99•

My O+ tracking was just good enough but I would have to always be conscious of the cameras seeing the controllers (dont swing too far etc). Its the same thing with my G2. On the other hand, the tracking is perfect on my Index. That said, for someone, who never used lighthouse tracking before, they would not notice a difference.

1
BlueScreenJunky•

Also rhythm games is a niche where people are willing to shell out $200 for sanwa microswitches to put in a $600 controller because they feel very slightly better. So yeah, if you're really invested in beatsaber I can see how minor tracking differences could justify going for one headset over the other.

1
JBB1984•

In good lighting, within the camera's tracking volume and without occlusion, WMR tracking is absolutely fine. I've used a Samsung O+ for the past 2 years as my main headset and it's been fine.

Lighthouse tracking wins in trickier tracking scenarios like hands above your head/behind you/by your waist etc or when the controllers are occluded by each other or when the controllers are very close to the headset.

Beat Saber doesn't really demonstrate those scenarios so IMO, WMR tracking is perfectly fine for Beat Saber and if the other caveats don't effect the kind of games you play, there's probably not much need to go the lighthouse tracking route if that's what you're worried about.

5
speed_rabbit•

I agree that overall the controllers are pretty good for Beat Saber. I will say that, as a not especially good player (Expert but not Expert+), I struggled a bit more than I expected in Beat Saber.

I figured with all the fast motions it'd be no problem, but then I found myself getting caught out by songs that have repeated side-to-side motions down low, or up high. These tend to be out of the camera tracking area for a few seconds and the longer duration causes issues. For songs where you're sweeping through the camera area every 1-2 seconds it's no problem at all.

I imagine other folks who hold their controllers differently and keep them in view more should have no problems. I could probably adapt by crouching more or looking down more, but I like to look ahead at the blocks coming, and I tend to prefer dancing to the music than maintaining optimal scoring postures, so I was surprised at the results since I was expecting Beat Saber to be a gimme.

1
Socratatus•

Inside-out is very respectable. I used to have the Vive and was very surprised how well the G2 does compared. Inside-out tracking has a much harder job than lighthouse, but people seem to think it should be exactly the same.

2
vtskr•

Good writeup. Can you also compare archery game in The Lab? :)

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CakeMagicOP•

Sure. I don't think it'll matter for archery, but I suppose it depends a lot on one's stance and speed. I did archery in minecraft with G2 and didn't had any problems with tracking

1
RipKip•

Archery game works really well as you naturally hold your hands in the tracking volume, unless you put your drawing hand super close to the headset

1
noneedtoprogram•

If you actually do archery you anchor the drawing hand out of view of the sensors, under your jaw bone or by your cheek. It works ok if you don't need to adjust your aim after drawing, but if you move at all then your anchor hand doesn't move with your head and your aim will be way off. I've also had issue with the fact the tracking ring is so massive you can't tuck in as close as, for example, cv1 touch, and that also throws off your aim and you need to relearn. In quivr you can adjust an offset setting to correct this, but I regularly found my right hand locking out of tracking and had to wave my hand in front of my face to get it to wake up again. Quivr also has a charged shot mechanic, where you keep the arrow drawn for a few seconds before release, and I think this contributes.

In the lab archery I always used to light arrows on fire in the torch without looking at it, but I don't trust the g2 tracking for that.

I don't expect it's any worse than quest or rift s, but inside out tracking does have it's issues with archery.

4
smsldoo•

Interesting to see a side by side, thank you for doing that.

I am new to beat saber, so there is a definite lack of skill involved. But on hard levels I do seem to get a few misses that I can directly attribute to the tracking. I think it may apply more to lower skill levels / songs since your controllers tend to rest a bit longer.

I do agree overall though that the stock controllers do well enough for most use cases. Although there are a few things that are just about unplayable like flight in NMS for example. But between the random wonkiness with beat saber and NMS flight I have not really encountered any noticeable issues.

1
RipKip•

Expert songs are doable on the G2 tracking, but when I try expert + it feels like the G2 tracking is working on 30hz and with a 20ms delay.

Has anyone tried looking through flashlight mode at their controllers when you move it around? It's not fluid, but a stuttering motion. I wonder if the leds on the tracking ring are on a low frequency

1
CakeMagicOP•

The G2 tracking definitely stutters/jitters!

LED in general are just really fast flashing lights, that our eyes can't follow. But it's different for cameras. I assume that's the reason why it jitters in game.

When I use my G2 controllers, it definitely felt like it 'jitters' more, but now that I can see it in third person in this video, I can absolutely tell that the Vive controllers are way smoother.

I need to get good at Beat Saber for Expert+ (I don't think I'll be able to do Expert+ in a LOOOONG time), but I assume it's still 'doable', but it's just really unsatisfying to play with G2 controllers.

1
RipKip•

If the frequency of leds would be the same (or way higher) as the camera fps there wouldn't be any led flickering, just tuning that would increase the fluidity. Let's hope there will be software updates or firmware updates for the controllers that smooths this out

1
808bass•

It is still doable, but comparing it to my index its not even close. Even comparing it to my Rift S it's not even close.. G2 is just so slow, jittery and not great tracking for these very demanding movements. This is regardless of my environment btw, and for games that require a slower movement its not that bad, if you disregard the worst-in-class tracking volume

1
808bass•

I have the same issue. People keep saying it's perfect, fine etc. But i always see proper reviews writing the same thing as yourself, and you seem to be experiencing the same issue i am when playing the hardest songs. Extremely fast movements feel absolutely terrible, laggy, not 1:1 tracking and just generally feel delayed. I switched over to the index to do a comparison and it's night and day. Base station tracking with index controllers was buttery smooth (was playing on 90hz headset setting to make a fair comparison). It was like a completely different game.

1
RipKip•

Yeah, I wonder if it can be fixed by updates or it is limited by the hardware. I'll guess we will have to play 'slow' games for now

1
DM_If_Feeling_Sad•

Tbh vr chat is the main goal though. That's why I have Knuckles coming.

1
CakeMagicOP•

Yes, nothing can beat the Index Knuckles for that!

It even makes me want to have the Knuckles, but I don't have that deep pockets haha.

But the Reverb G2 is kind of bad for VR Chat. There's is this issue with WMR HDMs where it won't render things that are far away. But it works perfectly find if you look into the mirror or camera?!??!?! I don't know why it works like that...

1
Socratatus•

Lighthouse will ALWAYS be better. It`s not a fair comparison.

But inside-out is still very good for what it does.

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CakeMagicOP•

Yes I agree, Lighthouse is obviously better. And it's going to be obviously be an unfair comparison.

The video I made isn't for 'Who comes out on top?', because Lighthouse tracking will in win in every category.

The video is made for people who are on the fence, because they heard the tracking was 'atrocious' or 'garbage'. I'm just showcasing if in real life usage, how good or bad the G2 tracking is. And if it can 'keep up' with Lighthouse tracking. And if it's 'good enough' for the things you do.

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808bass•

I agree, lighthouse will always be better. But playing games that demand a lot from the tracking (expert++ beatsaber), when comparing even the Oculus tracking to G2 its just very sub-par.

1