Hey,

Thanks for posting your newest version. I made a lot of comments on the document to function sort of like a read-along. For brevity's sake, I'm going to stick to the big picture stuff in my reddit comment.

Is this really adult?

One of the most common reactions I had to this story was "how old is Zeb supposed to be" and "why is he acting like a child/teenager?" The way that he behaves strikes me as even younger than teenager in some cases, where he bounces between sounding like a petulant teen who doesn't want to get up in the morning to acting like a twelve-year-old who's going through his first love. Given that this is supposed to be adult fantasy romance, I just want to come right out and say: I don't think this is going to appeal to adults. Adult fantasy romance (stuff like paranormal romance) has a lot of heat between the protagonist and their love interest, and while I don't necessarily think you need to get sexual in an adult fantasy romance, at the very least the character shouldn't be acting like a young child dealing with a first crush. It's unrealistic. It's unbelievable. And more to the point, it's kind of creepy? When you have Zeb, whose thought processes mirror those of a young child, lusting after an adult character while calling this an adult romance, it's really unpleasant. I don't pick up adult fantasy romance to read about children and teens. If I want to read about awkward first love interactions and obsessive mooning, then I'd pick up an MG or a YA.

And frankly, so much of this manages to sound absurdly MG. The tone is completely off. You have a protagonist that sounds like a child, whining to a character that sounds like his parent, being pushed around by his dog, feeling like everything is out of control (despite the narrative trying to lie to me about how he's the master of these creations. Yeah, I don't believe it), and mooning over the hot boy who keeps showing up at the castle. The juvenile feeling isn't helped at all by the fanfiction-esque writing, either. Things like italicizing entire lines of dialogue instead of letting the dialogue stand for itself, having characters say "eep" and squeak, everyone falling flat on their face like they're in an anime, it's ridiculous. I've said twice in the document: slapstick doesn't come across in literature the way that it does on television. It sounds absurd and juvenile, and it doesn't bring to mind Three Stooges or any adult comedy, it brings to mind childish animes where everyone is squealing and falling all over the place and acting like a preteen. Like, the anime/fanfiction feel to this is so strong that I can't help but suggest you read a lot more adult fantasy. Get a feel for the way that authors are conveying their characters. Look at the way that they're conveying humor. Hell, I suggested that you look at Jim Hines' stuff. I still think he's right up your alley, working comedy and fantasy together really well in his Goblin trilogy and his Princess series. His shit is funny, it's fantasy, and yet it still sounds like it's targeted to adults. This sounds like it's targeted to MG (preteens).

An uncomfortable, but familiar knot formed in Zeb’s stomach, arcing through his limbs, his fingers tingling. Since it only happened around Felix, Zeb deduced long ago it was a side-effect of being near sunblessed magic. He still wasn’t sure exactly how the magic was tied to Felix’s smile in particular, but it was undoubtedly there, all the same.

I know from your comment response that you think this section is actually defensible as an adult lying to himself about gay feelings, but again, I don't buy that. Yes, society does have an effect on those of us who are LGBTQIA+ and we will suppress our sexualities and genders to blend with the world around us, oftentimes out of fear, but this is amount of ignorance is not realistic for an adult, and especially not for the character you've set up. Zeb doesn't have much in the way of backstory available through this chapter, but we can see that he lives alone in his dark castle with his creations. What is the point of lying to himself when he clearly doesn't engage in society? What stakes are there for lying to himself? And more to the point, why does he sound like a child while doing so?

This is the kind of internal struggle that you see young LGBTQIA people dealing with, not adults. Adults know what they're feeling. They may not want those feelings, and they may deny them, they may squash them down, but I don't think they would be outright ignorant of them to the point where they would think, as an adult, that another person's smile and the way that it makes them feel is some sort of magical effect. And if that is accurate for Zeb? If he really is that childish (which does fit with his characterization)? Okay, fine. He's your character--obviously you can do whatever you want with him. But do these sorts of decisions actually fit the audience's expectations?

Hello! Thank you for sharing the update!

Now that I've seen Zeb's side of things and have a better understanding of where you're coming from with his character, I have some different opinions. For background, I've read a shitload of fantasy romance. It's like candy. Only some M/M, so I'll stick to the general stuff.

I think my big concern right now is, how does this end? Like in the last version, Zeb still sounds very young. He doesn't sound like someone capable of having an adult relationship, basically, because his flaws and concerns are things that kids generally go through and overcome on their way to adulthood. So I'm reading this and wondering, how do we get from where this character is right now, to a happy and fulfilling, or at least fun and realistic, adult relationship in the length of a book? And I think the answer is you don't in a believable way.

1. How to turn a teen romance beginning into an adult romance ending?

So one option right now is that both Felix and Zeb behave in similar ways and therefore, while not having an adult romance, at least they match each other in maturity. I imagine what these characters are capable of is more like "kid's first date, blushing and holding hands at a movie theater" type of stuff. I don't see Zeb moving in with anyone, because he's a kid who still gets woken up by his (metaphorical) dad every morning and criticizes his reflection in the mirror and worries about how his clothes look and seems to have no adult concerns or motivations currently.

So imagining this relationship starts at the hand-holding point, a very first foray into romance for the character, I don't see it getting to an adult stage in the length of a book. I see this being the type of book where, like, the couple kisses for the first time in the last few pages. Some YA does that. But no adult fantasy that I've ever read stops there. And I just don't see this character getting past that point, as he's written currently.

Another option is that Zeb reads this way, but Felix reads more like an adult, which would give Felix the appearance of a predator because of the power/knowledge/ability imbalance between them, which wouldn't be good.

2. What's important to a teenager versus adult

And it's not that adults can't hate their reflection or be anxious about wearing certain clothes, but those worries are generally miniscule in the face of more adult worries, and because they're adults, worrying about something doesn't stop them from choosing to do that thing anyway. They're able to recognize that these things aren't that important in the face of the Big Problem, and they're able to exert control over their own actions that allows them to get past it without any lengthy internal/external struggle with themselves or other people who are just trying to get them to act like an adult.

Like, here's Zeb:

"I. Don't. Wear. Red." (refuses to wear the garment for who knows how long)

And then here's how I imagine an adult experiencing dealing with that same problem:

Zeb frowned at the red tunic draped neatly over his armchair. He preferred black. (and then later, in the middle of some dialogue or something he's written putting it on without external complaint, or it's written later that he's already wearing it and nothing more is said about it)

Also, the reason they might hate their reflection or be anxious about wearing certain clothes is usually more adult, too. Like a kid hates his reflection because he's insecure about his appearance. An adult hates their reflection because they hate who they are, or they hate something they've done. A kid wears certain clothes when they're afraid other clothes will make them look bad, or draw un-fun attention to them. An adult wears certain clothes to hide parts of their bodies that might be identifying, or say too much about who they are or what they've done. If any of these adult reasons apply to Zeb, I'm not getting that from the text. It feels like his reasons are the kid reasons.

3. Teenage capability versus adult capability

Further thinking about adult fantasies... people provide for themselves. They get themselves up in the morning because if they don't, their world goes to shit for one reason or another. They rely on themselves for their own sustenance and success. Generally, at the beginning of the story, these characters are capable of living by themselves, and I don't get that vibe from Zeb. He acts like Lucian's teenage son most of the time. I don't see him buying his own food or preserving his claim to his own land or having earned a long-term claim in some other way. There's no way someone who's done any of those things also acts and talks like this, is what I'm feeling.

4. Teenage stressors versus adult stressors

And in adult fantasy romances, there are big, pervasive stressors. Like yeah, romance is a big part of it, but fantasies that are just romance with no other external problems are super flat and formulaic. In good ones, shit is constantly about to go wrong, real important adult shit like your employment or your livelihood or your health. Characters are being actively hunted for sport, they're on the run from the law, they're on the edge of poverty with no one else to feed or shelter them, they're trying to provide for a family or larger group of people while everything in the universe works against them to do so. There are immediate external things going wrong and they're things only adults can handle. I don't get the sense that Zeb can handle much more than getting out of bed and hanging out with Wyrm and Lucian. He doesn't want to look at himself in the mirror or have a love interest see his face. He doesn't seem like he can deal with an adult fantasy stressor, and I don't think he can realistically get to the point where he could in the length of a book.

5. Teenage behavior versus adult behavior

Final difference I'll note: in adult fantasies, generally the characters behave in a more subdued and controlled manner. They have these internal conflicts in their heads, but generally only the kind of internal conflict that an adult would find worth their energy. The internal conflict colors the way they act, but not to the point of comedy or absurdity (falling over being an example of the kid-version of internal conflict, in my opinion). The internal conflict doesn't leak out into every line of dialogue, it doesn't break the flow of their speech every time they open their mouth. They are capable of having conversations and participating in low-stress scenes without the internal conflict derailing it. They are capable of setting it aside when stakes are low (and, by the end of the book, when stakes are sky-high).

Final Thoughts

Hopefully that explains where I'm seeing the difference between how Zeb reads (to me, a teenager) and how I think you want him to be perceived (adult). It's mostly about self-control, finding bigger adult problems to smother the kid ones, and reworking actions and dialogue to reflect an adult's view of what's important in life.

I really hope you find some of this helpful. It felt very rambly while I was writing it but I've tried to organize it by concern. Thank you again for sharing.

So this isn't a crit for credit or anything because I'm not going to go into the prose like usual.

I have to agree with most of the others here. The behaviour of Zeb gave me major squick vibes, for the genre of adult MM fantasy.

I read The Charm Offensive this week, a regular MM romcom, and it seemed to have no sex in it but there is actually a whole lot of sex in it. Together with adult character development. I'm also deep in the middle of a hockey smut binge and that is just one giant fuckathon. Also with adult character development.

You have to get rid of those fanfic vibes. The hairbrushing scene - Zeb has a guy, in his personal space, doing something incredibly intimate with his head, and he just looks at himself with, like, one word at the end that he refuses to think about? Dude, he should be fantasising so hard he has to wash his pants afterwards.

I think you need to read, read, read in the published genre you want to write, to get a handle on the expectations. And if they're not your style, age this one down, and keep it clean and sweet.

Critique of Heartless (the Remix)

General Feedback

All in all, I enjoyed this story significantly more than your first version! You toned down the forced humor while still keeping it humorous. There a are some areas of easy mechanical improvements, espeically around removing filter words, and places where you should try to express more in a smaller space.

Before I dive deeper, I want to frame angle I am going to take for these critiques. As the other commenters have pointed out, you’ve portrayed Zeb as am adolescent, maybe a 16-year-old with limited experience dealing with his emotions and desires. If that wasn’t intentional, I ask you seriously consider whether maybe that is the real direction you want to head this story. Between this version and the other, you’re clearly steering in the more juvenile direction. The characters, the setting, the humor – it’s all pointing at something more lighthearted. I’d agree with the feedback that it’s hard to imagine how these characters will form a relationship the becomes intimate – it’d be like spying on teenagers having sex. Not a nice thought.

So, while I will address the mechanical elements or the writing itself I mentioned at the start, I’m going to critique the characters and plot as though this story is meant to be more adolescent.

Filter Words and Close Third Person

Close third person can be a disorienting perspective to write from. You have to both be in the head of a particular character while still presenting the world from the outside.

The easiest way to help think about it is by thinking of your story basically as a first person narrative, but from the outside. Framing it that way helps you see where you’re creating unwanted and unnecessary distance between your read, your character, and your fictional world.

This distance is called “filtering” and eliminating filtering is the lowest effort way to drastically improve your writing.

Here’s a basic, classic example of removing filter words. “She turned and saw a snake” becomes “She turned. There was a snake.”

Does that make sense? Your reader, in a way, is the character. They don’t turn and consciously register that they see things. They turn and there are things.

Here are a few examples of filtering in your story, I’ll leave it to you to root the rest of them out:

• “Zeb tried for a cold, grey glare, but knew any effect was diminished by black hair falling in his face.” should be “Zeb tried for a cold, grey glare, but the effect was diminished by black hair falling in his face.”
• “A slight twitch of the mouth indicated a smirk.” becomes “A slight twitch of the mouth, a smirk.”
• “when Zeb glanced down, he found Wyrm” becomes “Zeb glanced down. It was Wyrm…”

Moving the Story Along

The dialogue in this story is much better than in your first version. Where it was a weakness of the last version, I see it as a strength here.

That said, you should focus a bit more on exactly what you’re trying to convey with dialogue so you know when to move on. There are several points here where it seems like you’re rehashing the same point over and over again hidden within the dialogue.

Consider the first conversation between Zeb and Lucien as Zeb is getting ready. It seems like you’re trying to convey “Zeb views Lucien as a paternal prick. He’s reliant on him, but also find him to be somewhat annoying.” Can you convey this without all the back and forth banter? I bet you can.

We see this again in the interaction between Zeb and Lucien as Felix walks in. Condense and more the story along.

Think of dialogue like description. When you have multiple lines of dialogue that convey the same thing in different ways, it feels kind of like:

• The green mountain towered of them. It was green with moss, and rose into the sky before them. Massive, the color of blue and yellow mixed, it was unbelievably tall.

Obviously that’s an exaggeration, but you get it.

Characterization and Some Inspiration for Character Development

As I stated in the intro, I’m not going to tell you you need to change your characters. If you’re going for something that’s not meant to be mature and intimate, but rather more YA, I really like the characters and the interactions between them.

So, assuming you want to stick with Zeb the way he is, how are you going to get him to mature?

A character you might find some inspiration is Jezal dan Luthar from Joe Abercrombie’s First Law books. This is a bit spoilery, so I’ll hide it just in case. >!Jezal begins the series as a totally juvenile asshole, born with a silver spoon in his mouth and expecting everything to be given to him easily. He looks down on other characters and is, in general, immature and intolerable. Soon enough, though, he finds himself called to a dangerous journey with much more mature and seasoned characters. As they face more dangers, Jezel learns from the more seasoned characters what a privilege it is even to be alive. The things he used to bitch about become small in comparison.!<

This isn’t very unique though – you can probably think of a lot of similar examples. The key though is that something bad is going to have to happen to Zeb, the sooner the better. Can he survive without Lucien? Well he’s going to have to. Only by being removed from this coddled environment is he going to become the character you want him to be. I’m not that familiar with the genre you’re writing for, so perhaps the hero’s journey feels out of place, but you’re going to need some elements of it to get Zeb (and probably Felix) where you want him.

Closing Comments

Consider the kind of story you really want to write, remove filtering, speed up the story, and challenge Zeb to grow beyond the boy he is.

Do all this and you’ll have a work of art.

I hope you find some of this helpful! i enjoy your writing style, and hope to read more of your work.

Just a quick response.

I actually like the tone of this excerpt. I got the sense that the protagonist is an awkward nerd, and while the "I don't like him but I actually really really like him" vibe got a bit repetitive after a while, I didn't find it childish. I'm a fantasy reader but not a romance reader, so for me, I would expect more of a focus on the character's motivations/situaton/whatever whereas this excerpt feels a little like he's a lust vehicle for the romantic interest, but again, I'm not sure what the expectations are in fantasy romance. In the same vein, the physical descriptions felt excessive for me, but I know that's something that romance readers expect. Generally, I'd say this was very dialogue-heavy and I didn't get a good sense of place beyond the (great!) little prologue at the beginning.

One thing I do want to mention is the pacing. As in, this excerpt basically harps on about two things: he has the hots for this guy and can't admit it, and he is insecure/wants to hide/can't live with himself. And I just wanna tell you, you don't need to lay it on that thick. Trust your reader; we actually like to come to conclusions in our own minds, follow hints, be left to wonder about what's unsaid. I understood that he has a poor relationship wtih himself and the end of your little prologue (and some might find it overdramatic, but I loved it!), and I got that he has the hots for this guy and doesn't want to admit it the very first time the guy was mentioned. From an impact perspective, the rest of that chapter, with all the symbolic banter about robes etc etc, was belaboring the point. And from a rising action perspective (pacing) it got kinda boring, because you weren't feeding me new information, new questions. It was just, he's insecure and he likes this guy, and by the way he's insecure and he likes this guy, and, HAVE YOU HEARD, he's insecure and he likes this guy. I'd either use that space more productively to introduce something new (could be info about his background or some non-boy-related motivation or trouble, could be giving us a sense of place, vibes...), or just skip to the next action. I will agree that this is a little fanfic-y in the sense that it has imo excessive banter, which is something most fanfic suffers from.

As an aside, I'm also writing a novel about a gay necromancer! And I actually really enjoy your take.

​

There is nothing more fundamentally human than fear of the dark.

This is an amazing start to the chapter.

My problem starts with the following sentences because it doesn’t feel as authentic.

almost-adults confront themselves; adults confront the lives they’ve built from their own decisions. It should be no surprise that as humans grew up, their fears did too.

That sounds grammatically wrong, a better alternative suggestion would the term “adolescence”. From an outside perspective this scene needs a bit more imagery. It was therefore clear to the people of Apordain that Beelzebub was not human.

It’s too early to be name dropping the character this early on. At this point we as the readers have no idea this character struggles with his innate humanity. Following on the

Beelzebub had no heart. No blood pulsed in his veins, and his touch was that of icy death itself.

Is this regarding the readers or this is passage from the onset observations of the citizens of Apordain?.

Granted, that hadn’t happened yet, but it was only a matter of time. The destruction of light was the only reason he would lurk behind the walls of Castle Wraith, plotting and working dark magic. The castle itself was the only point of disagreement.

This passage here feels as if it doesn’t belong in this page, as what’s written could almost be seen as a spoiler, a foreshadowing that doesn’t match well with the pacing of the passage. But what I do like about the passage and the following paragraph was the introduction of the world, the castle feels almost alive because this is the first time, we as the readers meet the castle and all of your descriptions for it feel like speculations that works really well for the mystery aspect of castle wraith. I hope as the story grows that the castle itself will almost become a main character because it would be a pity if it doesn’t.

No, he was not human, for there was nothing of him that was like them, at all.

There’s more to being human than the color of our blood, at this moment in the story it doesn’t matter for the aspect of his missing heart because in a world filled with magic and sorcery there is bound to be individuals who has long forgone their human appearances.

There also appears to be lack of foundation for the essence of this world that he’s living in. is Zeb the only one who has magic? is practicing the dark arts frowned on in the city/town/nation of Apordain?. (What is Apordain, what kind of place is it, is a town, an empire, a village? please give more on what this place is and the culture of its people so we as readers can understand how truly different Zeb is from the people who call this place home because as it stands your feeding me info and how to feel about the people of this place without even introducing me to them”.

“Hidden within the crumbling stone walls of Castle Wraith, Zeb floated in darkness. It wasn’t pleasant, certainly, but better than the alternative. Out there.”

Please elaborate more on the “Out there” what’s out there? What type of world is the heartless Beelzebub so afraid of that he would rather spend secluded in the darkness that he fears? A shift of characterization because you contradicted what you established for the character that the only thing, he was afraid of was “the darkness” so elaborate more on the “out there”.

Characterization:

Zeb was interesting but also annoying. It felt like every time he was on screen his personality was changing, I very much like characters like these but a part of my dissonance with him is the product of the first page and the character that followed was miles away from what was described. (no heart, filled with darkness, only human thing about him is that he's afraid of the darkness? "ok cool, this dude sounds baddass, we than proceed to the second page with the introduction of Lucian and im now reading the story through the eyes of nativity or that of an overpowered character who's servants walk all over him.

Nothing fear-worthy about him even his pet? doesn't obey him. But as a main character I think I started liking him because I enjoyed his inner monologues.

What genre are you going for? your fantasy setting wasn't fleshed out, the rom-com aspects of the story is truly sticking to the essence of what makes a rom-com. Zeb random thoughts to Felix and finally in the end Felix rom-com worthy movie entry, I feel like if you cut off the the first page and just started the story with Lucian introductions, to the wyrm and Zeb being a useless master to his servants this story would be a slice-of-life rom-com with shenanigans ensuing it would explain the characterization that's being displayed for Zeb. So what could be done to make the flow and the obvious tone shift on the second page? Chapter 1 is Zeb introduction. So make the whole of the first page the prologue because as it stands that page is the cause of the tonal shift. The character that was described in the first page sounds like an old soul who lived for centuries but it doesn't feel that way.

Overal thoughts:

It certainly feel likes you already have a certain characterization for zeb in mind so the larger problems is the lack of the world around of him, he may not be a blank canvas but the world around him is. We know so much about Zeb but almost next to nothing about Beelzebub.

I liked the chapter, you have an engaging style of writing and from this chapter alone I can already see your strongest suit is comedy because the comedy timing of some of the scenes was really well done.

Okay I added some critiques to the original document for your updated version of this chapter. I will preface by saying I never read your first draft of this chapter but here are my takeaways.

First what I liked.

I did like that your characters had personality and characterization weather you hit the mark on that as for what you were going for with your characters is debatable BUT I do like they felt like they had personality I’ve read so many stories on here where character personality is thrown to the wind and I’m reading a bland stiff generic character and yours at least felt interesting and lively. I just don’t know if it fit for what you were going for but at least it’s a start.

Now onto my critiques.

First one of my bigger issues is I felt your prose or dictum I don’t know which is the correct word but the style of writing you choose throughout the piece to be overly wordy and inconsistent. It also lacked flow. This could just be me overall not liking some of your wordage choices but I still felt like your writing came off as almost trying to be more literate wordy profound yet just ended up overly describing actions you already stated. Not to mention it’s not consistant as then a lot of the dialogue reads drastically less wordy and more simplistic. Here are some examples of sentences I feel show this as it’s best I show it rather then continue with my poor explanation of the issue.

it wasn’t pleasant, certainly, but better than the alternative

Here your wording sounds very vague we don’t know what the alternative is and you have a lot of sentences like this where they read to be as very vague and almost beating around a bush by not landing on anything but being long. Not to mention you are telling us it wasn’t pleasant not showing it.

Out there.

That’s literally right after the last sentence and could just be combined with it for much better flow as having a lot of short sentences like that break up flow and really have to be earned.

I can’t show examples for this as formatting is different on Reddit than Google Doc, but you also use a lot of italicizes and it’s fine to do so for inner thoughts as that’s a stylistic choice I see done often. However, when you use it for emphasis on words it reads as a bit amateurish as a good writer can emphasis words through their writing and won’t need to italicize all the time.

There are more examples I pointed out in my comments on the doc, but you get my point, your writing lacks flow, sounds vague at points, and you can often add a lot of superfluous details out of place big words so on. Then other times your writing felt a bit too immature when you made jokes, or had simplistic dialogue. So just check on the actual writing, make sure it’s conscious to the point and consistent.

Second the characterization of Zeb if your wondering if it was effective. In my opinion if he’s supposed to be a master and in charge, no. If your going for a teenager who was placed in charge of these people but isn’t quiet fit for the task yet has to learn to BECOME fit, maybe? It worked in that regard or angel for the most part even if at points he bordered on too silly, and a bit whiny particularly when complaining about his red shirt, and with how he acted towards his crush. His emotions were fine, but his flustered actions read real childish, by teenage and adulthood most of they flustered energy is inward not outward. I feel he could be better characterized if you decided fully how you want him to act, make a character sheet for him and All your other characters and stick heavily to it. If it was me personally I would have him go with a kinda teenage emo/gothic cynical vibe as that would be more mature, still reads as teenager behavior and make the themes appear more adult since cynicism is a lot seen in adult works, while not being a defining trait of them. Also it would break romance conventions to have a romance with a cynical person rather then a happy in love lovey dovey cute.

Third the tonal shift? Do you mean the one between darkness and then character perspective. Personally my take on that is that I liked what you were trying to say, so I.E the Themes about darkness at the start of your novel and I hope you find a way to still weave them into the piece as the best writing not only tells a story but has something to say. However, I did feel the beginning felt out of place compared to the more character driven nature of the rest of the chapter.

For the most part that’s it for what I have to say as I feel like others gave you good feedback!