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r/Iteration110Cradle•
Dom_writez

[Dreadgod] Lindon

SpoilerCradle

Alright guys so I've seen this on here a lot recently and I think we need to actually talk about it and maybe get a word from Will (or he'll leave us and explain in the next book ;-;)

I think Lindon is a full Dreadgod now. THEREFORE , he can't advance to Monarch. Advancing would mean fusing with his remnant, the congealed form of his spirit. Well, he already is fused with his spirit, just not in the same way normal sacred artists do it. I honestly don't think Lindon can advance as he can no longer form a remnant

Posted Jul 12, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

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Magoo2032Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Something to think about: the relationship between the Monarchs presence and the strength of the Dreadgods/hunger aura. My guess? Lindon is going all in, where he becomes a Dreadgod and is literally empowered by the presence of his targets: the Monarchs. He can't ascend while they're still there, so he gets rid of them by either killing them or forcing them to ascend.

Once the Monarchs are gone, wouldn't he stop being a Dreadgod and could then ascend because the origin of existence for hunger aura would no longer be tied to Cradle?

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Dom_writezOP•

Oh definitely I think so too. It's his "easiest" route to amass the power needed to force all the Monarchs to ascend

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HisokatheuchihaTeam Lindon•

The only reason this doesn’t make sense is that I don’t see will making Lindon stronger and then weaker and not be able to become a full monarch.

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Magoo2032Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

You make a fair point. Another consideration is that there are two methods of power in Cradle: raw power and authority/will. While Lindon may lose some raw power after the scenario I described, wouldn't his willpower and authority be massively developed by these events?

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HisokatheuchihaTeam Lindon•

Yes, they probably would but we just saw the Silent king get killed because he lacked….physical power.

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BloodForged110Team Lindon•

Not full dreadgod, baby dreadgod. He is not a Herald yet, as Malice says in her fight against him, but he has the vitality and strength of one. I think that he will have to kill some more dreadgods before he becomes an actual deadgod/herald (basically Monarch at that point)

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Dom_writezOP•

But if we take what the Monarchs are saying into account, Shen straight up called him a Monarch didn't he?

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Jmw566Reader•

I wonder if that could be a bit of either ignorance or trickery on Shen’s part, honestly. We know for a fact that Lindon isn’t a regular Monarch, just not whether it’s possible for him to advance to Monarch since he’s already assimilated the Dreadgod into him. Shen could either mistakenly think that Lindon fused with his remnant already and that’s why he’s so strong OR it’s also possible that Shen decides to refer to him as a monarch as a misdirection to try to prevent him from advancing further.

Or maybe Dreadgod is just the equivalent to monarch and he’s topped out. But I feel like it’d be a huge missed opportunity to not have Lindon manifest and confront his remnant as well as having a training montage type sequence where Lindon doesn’t actually get stronger on his own but just makes weapons and stuff and helps his team.

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Dom_writezOP•

Maybe but it's also a huge thing to have him say "no" to the whole standard way of doing things and reaching the same level through another way. He's been subverting the norm throughout the series, why stop now?

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Niceguy4186•

n’t a regular Monarch, just not whether it’s possible for him to advance to Monarch since he’s already assimilated the Dreadgod into him. Shen could either mistakenly think that Lindon fused with his remnant already and that’s why he’s so strong OR it’s also possible that Shen decides to refer to him as a monarch as a

Just an off the wall thought, the power of the dreadgods are split between the remaining ones and then are reborn sometime death. Perhaps after the last dreadgod is killed, the spirt or whatever is trying to be reborn can be merged with?

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DoubleLigero85Team Lindon•

Additional points to consider.

Dreadgods can't (edit) ascend because they lack a connection to the Way. The voidsage does.

Monarchs are all roughly the same power level. A monarch is slightly stronger than 1/5 of the dreadgod power on cradle.

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Dom_writezOP•

Dreadgods can't advance because they are already at that level of power. A part of the path for them and Monarchs to become that strong is fusing with the spirit, it's just 2 separate ways

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DoubleLigero85Team Lindon•

Oops, I meant ascend.

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Dom_writezOP•

O lol

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watchcryTeam Lindon•

How did the Titan use spatial transport to bring the Silent King over? Didn't he use the way?

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PlaceboJesus Lurks in the Shadows•

They can use spatial transport, when they aren't befuddled.

But they generally can't travel far.

Dreadgods had a limit on how far they could transport themselves. They were too conceptually heavy to move far…but now Lindon could see the workaround the newly intelligent Dreadgods had created.
They had figured out how to give themselves a counterweight. Something to trade with.
And there were only four beings on Cradle with the metaphysical mass to trade with a Dreadgod.

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DoubleLigero85Team Lindon•

I see your point, and have no answer. I thought I remembered reading that somewhere, but now I can't find it.

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watchcryTeam Lindon•

He first teleported to get to the gate leading to Moongrave.

He used it again when he somehow switched places with the Silent King on another continent.

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Dom_writezOP•

No the Titan used the Void, which is the antithesis to the Way that the Vroshir and Fiends typically use

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watchcryTeam Lindon•

Are you sure? I'm not sure if there's even access to the void from cradle. I'm not saying it's not possible, as the Vroshir can access it, but the Vroshir worlds aren't connected to the way like Cradle is, right?

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Dom_writezOP•

I mean it calls it a void portal in chapter 15, as it also calls the Vroshir portals void portals, but that may have just been a slip up and it could be unrelated

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chojinra•

I don’t know, at this point becoming a monarch might be a step back.

He’ll figure out a way to regardless.

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Dom_writezOP•

I mean yeah tbh Monarch for him with his goal is way less useful than being a Dreadgod and, as someone else here stated, being literally empowered by your targets mere presence in the iteration

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Necrei•

I think it’s possible that the only part of him that fused with his body was the arm that became more like subject 1. I reread that scene and there is some ambiguity as to how much of him fused. His cores became more real but it doesn’t say they fused to him. Also he stopped the progression of his arm at his shoulder, which may be where the fused portion that became a dreadgod was forced to stop. If this is the case, he could still advance with the rest of his body.

But I have a feeling that Will is planning something special and different for him. Maybe some fusion of monarch and dreadgod. Or maybe just another path to monarch. Either way we find out in the next book :)

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Dom_writezOP•

We will indeed (no pun intended)

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polypan-storymanReader•

Okay well time to parrot some points

  1. Is Lindon a Dreadgod? Likely...or at least he counts as one. As he stated, when one dies, the other 4 are empowered, as he is currently the host for slumbering wraith. So for the purposes of that connection he counts.
  2. Is lindon a monarch or monarch equivalent? No but he is dummy strong. He has absorbed crushers authority over strength from wintersteel, has northstriders body juice from ghostwater, diamond veins from malice, and an arclords bloodforged iron body, not to mention just the dragon strength he can put out from his blackflame path. This is why in a lot of ways, he has a heralds vitality without being a herald himself. This is only made more evident when he gets the extra power from SW which basically just turns everything he had up to 11
  3. Is Lindon fused with his spirit? Probably not actually. I mean he is bonded with A spirit...slumbering wraith, but the transformation is not complete. Only got up to his shoulder
  4. Can lindon advance to monarch? Actually probably but itll be a bitch all things considered, because he is about to have the most INSANE remnant ever, just horrifyingly powerful. That said, if he kills all the dreadgods, it becomes very likely that that would be enough to make him go from baby dreadgod to full blown lord of destruction.
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Dom_writezOP•

I would disagree with 3, as it explicitly states that his madra channels are now a part of his body

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Baconbitz20000Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

I’m begging you call ghost water anything than Northstriders body juice. Anything else would be infinitely better than calling it that.

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account312•

Would you prefer sauce to juice?

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Baconbitz20000Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Tbh, essence would work the best

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Turbulent-Swordfish2Reader•

Thank you!!

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Dom_writezOP•

Lol why the thank?

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Turbulent-Swordfish2Reader•

For saying what I thought, but couldn't articulate.

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1
Knightwhosaynitefise Lurks in the Shadows•

I have to admit that I will be disappointed if he doesn’t become a monarch.

This is a progression fantasy book with monarch being the end-all be-all for in-cradle advancement. I personally want him to be a DG-Monarch hybrid

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account312•

with monarch being the end-all be-all for in-cradle advancement

For non-dreadgod peasants, maybe.

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Dom_writezOP•

But Will has already confirmed that those are exclusive. Both need to be fused with their spirits but one is through a remnant and the other is the spirit being sort of burned into the body

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Knightwhosaynitefise Lurks in the Shadows•

Do you know where I can find that quote?

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Dom_writezOP•

So quote from Will's June stream for this year (from Abidan Archive):

"Q: It seems like dreadbeasts have their spirits fused into their material flesh as they grow more powerful, is this meant to be diametrically opposed to how the heralds do it? 

Will: Yeah, so the end result is kind of similar, of dreadbeasts and Heralds, the point is that Heralds do it when both are stable and ascended, successfully I mean they're merging their spirit and body correctly, and dreadbeasts and dreadgods are doing it incorrectly. Now the dreadgods do it incorrectly, but they do it so synergistically that it ends up being correct, like loops around in on itself. It's, it's like doing it wrong so much that it becomes right, but dreadbeasts have done it wrong and they suffer for it. "

Idk how to quote properly but yeah.

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PlaceboJesus Lurks in the Shadows•

So there's a wrong way to do it wrongly, and a right way to do it wrongly.

"Dreadgods" do it wrong correctly (e.g. the Hydra, Subject One, the other Dreadgods).

But Dreadbeasts do it wrong the wrong way.
Mostly, I think they're simply contaminated and there was no intent or desire to incorporate Hunger into their systems. It just happens and they're screwed.

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Knightwhosaynitefise Lurks in the Shadows•

Thank you

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SageOfStarsAndStones•

He's fused with hunger spirit. Just like how you could fuse your blood shadow to go herald, but if you fail you still have a remnant, him having fused with hunger doesn't stop him having a remnant that we know of. He can Monarch.

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Dom_writezOP•

By your own reasoning he cannot go Monarch, as Yerin can't fuse with her remnant which was confirmed by Will I believe in a q&a

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SageOfStarsAndStones•

Link me, Red Faith had one

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Dom_writezOP•

Red Faith lost his blood shadow and can no longer fuse with it. Also I'll look for where it was said

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SageOfStarsAndStones•

Didn't mean he didn't have a remnant which was the needed part to go monarch

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Dom_writezOP•

Welp can't find any real mention of it, but figuring that becoming a Herald is fusing your body and spirit and Yerin already did that and is already called a Herald, I don't think that's really an unjustified point. But we won't know until Will confirms or denies anything

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still-at-work•

He will just cut off his arm, lose the source of hunger madra,and then advance.

Or, alternatively, he converts hunger madra into void madra using dross and his hammer and whatever else.

Basically I wouldn't worry about it, I don't think it would stop Lindon, at best it would delay him for a day or two.

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captaindargoTeam Lindon•

He’s still a sage. I think he will be a hybrid monarch/dreadgod.

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ShlockoFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

I agree entirely with the exception that I don’t think he’s a dreadgod. His arm lets him gain a lot of the benefits of one, but there’s a few things intrinsic to dreadgods that don’t apply to him, and I believe disqualify him as a true dreadgod.

He’s also definitely not a monarch, and I agree he can’t advance to monarch in the traditional way.

He’s something in between, and it won’t stop him from gaining power

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realistic_idealist41Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

What are the things intrinsic to dreadgods that don't apply to him at this point?

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account312•

They don't die when they are killed but Lindon probably does.

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ShlockoFiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

For one he can freely travel through space, something the dreadgods cannot do almost at all. Probably not even by means of a counterweight now that SK is out of the picture.

He also presumably doesn’t have a core binding like the rest of them do, as his physical manifestation of a dreadgod is limited to his arm, though we don’t have proof that he lacks one.

We don’t know that he can still ascend, but the fact that he can still manipulate the way, with growing effectiveness, would imply that he likely can still ascend as well.

Overall, the biggest overall factor is his ability to travel space, implying he isn’t bound like the dreadgods. That seems very vital to their being, and implies, to me, that he is very much like a dreadgod, but isn’t quite the same thing. Really he just advances like one.

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realistic_idealist41Fiercely Fierce Flair of Fierce Flairosity•

Cool, thanks!

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epbrown01•

I'd say the most significant is Lindon doesn't have a core binding like them. I suspect it's why they constantly regenerate.

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Masticore39Team Dross•

Only his arm is a Dreadgod. He took enough power in to increase his vitality and strength but he is not a Dreadgod. He will continue to get power ups each time a Dreadgod dies though.

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Dom_writezOP•

But at this point is he not a dreadgod? Everything that applies to Dreadgods applies to him now

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Masticore39Team Dross•

He isn’t a Dreadgod. He can still open portals and transfer himself. Dreadgod can’t do that without switching places with another Dreadgod.

He is closest to Son of a Dreadgod.

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Dom_writezOP•

I guess in a way that is true, but I thought that had more to do with how conceptually heavy a dreadgod is and Lindon isn't that heavy yet

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