Is this for real? Man arrested for carrying a gun inside of a theater, called "possible copycat"
cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/us/2012/08/08...Posted Aug 8, 2012, 12:41 PM UTC
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cnn.com
Tactical Sitting: somewhere you can view 3 directions by turning your head...so everywhere.
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Sign up now for on-on-one Tactical Sitting instruction with our team of high-speed, low-drag, tactical sitting operators. The first 10 students will also receive this MOLLE seat-cushion.
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Sign up now for on-on-one Tactical Sitting instruction with our team of low-speed, high-drag, tactical sitting operators. The first 10 students will also receive this MOLLE seat-cushion.
FTFY
Also includes expert instruction on how to draw the remote from the recliner pouch in less than 2 seconds to avoid commercials.
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Holy shit, I haven't laughed like that at a comment in a long time.
Kudos to you sir!
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What about the report that he was OC? Man, who knows...
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Wouldn't it be the worst place to sit as a shooter as well? If you start shooting at the front they have nowhere to run, shoot from the back and there goes everyone out the exit.
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Wow. So am I no longer allowed to carry a Maxpedition bag without looking suspicious?
Looks like he didn't have a permit.
If he didn't have a permit, he shouldn't have been carrying. What pisses me off is that carrying a Maxpedition bag qualifies you as a social deviant.
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Permits (even thought I have my CCDW) are pure bullshit, and should be abolished.
If you are a US citizen, and can buy a gun passing a background check you should be able to carry that weapon, without a permit.
I could open carry all day, every day where I live (Ky) anywhere but a federal area. I did open carry (and still do, despite my CCDW), why should I have to get a permit to carry concealed, when I can openly walk around with my gun in the open?
If you are a US citizen and can legally buy a gun, I firmly believe that you should be able to carry from east to west coast and north to south in any state.
I have defused quite a few hostile situations at the local race track just buy walking over (open carrying) and letting everyone know I was there.
That said, I own and use a retention holster, shoot often and hope I never ever have to use deadly force. Ever.
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This is not the same as the guy who legally was carrying in the Colorado theater before being arrested under trumped up charges. This man broke the law and should have known better.
Even though I think it's bullshit to see everyone in this story fearmonging about a scary-looking manpurse, it's not doing the gun community any favors to defend this guy with libertarian platitudes about how you think things should be.
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Watching the video was like a checklist for me.
Strange bag? Oh...Maxpedition Verispack. - Check 9mm semi auto handgun in bag. - Check. 2 mags. - Check...though I have 3. 3 knives in bag. One on him. - Check. Though I have two knives on me and one in the bag. Tactical sitting. - Bullshit claim, but I like to sit high and in the back. Check.
This entire article annoys the hell out of me. I'm hoping I'm missing some critical piece of it due to CNN's usual shit reporting. On what grounds did they search his home and sieze his gear? What law did he break?
He should have told the off duty cop and the manager to piss off, demanded his money back, and left the theater.
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On what grounds did they search his home and sieze his gear?
This is the bigger part of the story that really scares me.
Carry a gun in the wrong place, get your house raided?
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I honestly want to know if there is any legality to this. I own firearms but I do not have my CCW. If I were to carry that weapon on my person in a holster and got pulled over I'm well aware they could confiscate it but could they actually come to my house and take every gun I own?
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AFAIK, no. In most states carrying without a permit is a misdemeanor offense, and they don't do full confiscations of firearms unless you commit a felony. Again, AFAIK. Not a lawyer.
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I mean if you are arrested for any crime that would involve evidence being at your house, that house usually gets searched. so really you should be saying:
Get arrested, get your house raided?
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What evidence related to this crime (unlawful carry in a movie theater) was at his house, and how was it related to the crime in the theater?
Unless I'm missing part of the story here, I cannot fathom any relations between the two.
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EXACTLY!!!!!!
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I sit in the back of the theatre because it gives the best view .. and I sit in the middle because it gives the best view.
Apparently my movie viewing preferences make me a terrorist.
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Every time I go to a restaurant I refuse to sit with my back to the door. I always want a clean field of view of the rest of the establishment. I guess I'm guilt of terrorist tactical sitting too.
They should ban all middle seats in theaters! They are only for evil!!!!!
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What law did he break?
Seems like he didn't have a CCW.
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Well if he didn't have a concealed handgun license and that is required in that state then he's a idiot.
It still does not warrant them searching his bag because it "looked suspicious." I carry that same bag. I wore it for a solid week in a hospital that specifically denied me my right to carry. During that time I locked the gun in the car.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop
Reasonable suspicion can include, a 911 call saying they believe someone is going to shoot up a movie theatre, and point out the guy who is carrying a tactical military bag, that I'm sure a PO would know is equipped with a gun pocket.
I can't watch the CNN video, and I obviously can't talk about the events that transpired there. But a reasonable PO would (I assume) attempt to pull the the person in question aside and ask him if he's carrying, and whether he has a ccw. If they cause any problems, because this call was under the assumption the man intended to shoot people, his uncooperativeness could warrant a terry stop and frisk to make ensure the safety of the officer, and would be a lawful search.
Just like you have a right to wear the bag, I have a right (and possibly a duty) to call the cops if i see something I believe is suspicious. It's a shitty situation, but honestly, when it comes down to it, the dude should't be ccing in a tactical looking bag without a licence in a movie theatre around within a few weeks after a mass shooting in a movie theatre.
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If he didn't have a permit, he shouldn't have been carrying.
Yet if he did this in Alaska, Vermont, or Arizona it would have been perfectly legal and he wouldn't have his life ruined.
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What does that have to do with someone illegally carrying in Ohio?
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Because the fact that it's illegal to carry in some places and not others, or to force required permits on civilians negates the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution, which has everything to do with someone "illegally" carrying in Ohio.
It shouldn't be illegal.
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In a land of sheep, anything with pointy teeth or claws is to be feared... :(
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Is this a quote from something or just your personal motto?
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I just penned it today in response to this situation.
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Chickens have claws.....
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Release a chicken in the general public & watch them freak out.
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He shouldnt have allowed them to search his bag, im sure they dont search every womans purse.
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I have a friend that works for the corporate office of AMC theaters and they have a new policy of random bag checks after the Aurora incident. I wouldn't be surprised if this theater has a similar policy.
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the usher asked to check my GF's purse. We got REALLY nervous, because we had just stashed 3 boxes of Walgreen's candy in there. Amazingly, no problems! "We don't have weapons, but we do have candy..." She winked and said it wasn't a problem.
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I carry a loaded gun and two spare magazines everywhere, every day.
Although I don't carry four knives, I don't see the relevance.
The man only has two hands and can't use them all at once, likely he has different knives for different things.
I went to a movie last week, and was worried about my safety the whole time, I can't say I could fault the man at all for bringing a gun, hell, I did.
Also, who is to say he doesn't simply like to sit in the back on the theater?
"Tactical" seating? This is starting to get ridiculous.
America, where you're Innocent until proven guilty, but arrested on suspicion and smeared in the media the entire time.
The fact of the matter is, unless you get a confession out of this guy, and he actually turns out to be a nutcase, I don't believe a word of it.
I'm not saying I can guarantee he had good intentions, and concealed carrying without a permit was not a good decision, but other than that it's a bunch of ridiculous speculation.
I don't think owning a few rifles a bit of survival gear and a milsurp gas mask make you a crazy mass murderer, I'm sorry. Hell, if that we're the case, we'd have 69,749 potential mass murderers right here.
That makes about as much sense as assuming my neighbor who is a gardener has fertilizer to make bombs.
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America, where you're Innocent until proven guilty, but arrested on suspicion and smeared in the media the entire time.
I stole that
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You're welcome to, most of my thoughts are public domain.
I should really write down some of the things I come up with...
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Call me a conspiracy theorist but I can't help but feel this all a ploy to create the narrative of the "home grown terrorist.". I mean all semblance of objectivity has long since gone out the window, crazy times ahead!
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Better not be prepared for anything, or you'll be considered a threat.
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don't show up early to a movie to get good seating, and don't carry more than 1 clip. Terrorist.
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Also, don't own cool milsurp gear, or you're a nutcase.
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The gas mask makes sense. That guy looks like he uncorks a pretty wicked fart.
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Dude also had no ccw licence and was in the military for a month before being discharged. He was illegally carrying and got arrested for it. The thing that bugs me is the knives. I carry a knife everywhere, but not a plethora of knives in a bag illegally carrying a pistol.
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He could have had a pocketknife (1), a multitool (2), and another knife or two in his bag (3-4)... what exactly is worrying about that? I know many people that carry multiple tools and knives for EDC, so I am just curious here what exactly is wrong about this. Is there a law that says you can only carry a certain amount of tools and knives on you?
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Don't forget the toenail clippers
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The thing that is worrisome is that dude had multiple knives and an ILLEGALLY concealed handgun for protection. I carry a knife too, but i carry one that suits my needs. If I need a multi tool i carry that and not my knife. This dude had three in a bag and one on him. I'll concede one was probably a pocket knife, but the rest were "for protection". You don't protect yourself with multi tools or Swiss army knives. In the initial inquiry into what was in his bag, he his all three knifes and the pistol. That shows he knew he was in the wrong. Also he admits he takes daily medication, but wont tell police what it is. If it was insulin or something non psychotic what's the secrecy about? Not to mention being discharged from the military after 30 days. Or the several bulletproof vests they found in his home. Also he says he has a "deep sense of fear" of being in a theater. If i have a deep sense of fear about a place, i dont go there. Something is wrong with this guy.
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I respect your opinions but I also respectfully disagree on some points...
The thing that is worrisome is that dude had multiple knives and an ILLEGALLY concealed handgun for protection.
The fact that he was carrying a pistol illegally, while it does have merit to point out that he was breaking the law, does not indicate that he was up to anything sinister or wrong. Yes he broke the law saying you can't carry a gun without a government mandated piece of paper, but what else did he do? He complied with police right? I honestly think that permit requirements are stupid, arbitrary, and inefficient at preventing crime. Just because someone has a permit doesn't mean they are safe, and vice versa how many criminals and gangsters take the time to go get permits? It's a useless system. I do agree though, yes he was in the wrong for breaking the law but the law is dumb and shouldn't be a law IMHO. So just because he broke a stupid law doesn't mean he is a criminal or a bad guy.
In the initial inquiry into what was in his bag, he his all three knifes and the pistol. That shows he knew he was in the wrong.
I'm assuming you meant "he hides all his three knifes and the pistol"... which the story said when first asked, he showed medical supplies. What right do regular theater employees have to search movie-goers? Is that a legal right they have? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm seriously asking. What right do they have to search people and what authority do they have to require that someone complies to that search? To me, it seems like an unlawful search that they have no authority to do. Thus, if they have no authority to search him he has no duty to comply. If some random theater patron came and asked to search me in a theater, I would say "No thanks, you have no authority to search me". If they asked me to leave I would comply, get a refund and leave.
f it was insulin or something non psychotic what's the secrecy about?
A right to privacy is not the same as secrecy. Once again, what authority does anyone have to question what medicine he takes? It's nobodies business but his and his doctors, and that's what the actual law says. Patient-doctor confidentiality. There was no way police could assume he is dependent on drugs or abusing drugs unless there was some other evidence to lead them to that. If they just assumed that, they were in the wrong and he has done nothing wrong.
Not to mention being discharged from the military after 30 days.
I don't know about that, but that doesn't necessarily mean he did something wrong or evil and sinister. He could have been discharged due to his medical condition, whatever that may be. I'm not defending him but just standing up for the rights to privacy and freedom that all Americans are told we have... but it seems we are just told we have these rights, we don't actually have them.
Or the several bulletproof vests they found in his home.
What is wrong with this? I own armor and bullet resistant garments, does this make me a threat to society? Several of my friends own bulletproof vests and plates, should society be worried about them?
What exactly is worrisome about someone owning armor? Is it just paranoia? Blind fear? What?
I think it's fear mongering. Just like the media is telling us "This guy had an ASSAULT RIFLE and etc etc...." they are playing this up to be something way more than it actually is. Think about it, what is evil about owning a bulletproof vest? It means that someone doesn't want to get shot and die. Is there anything wrong with not wanting to be shot? Just because someone wants to protect themselves and defend their lives by purchasing bullet resistant vests or armor does not mean they are planning something sinister.
he has a "deep sense of fear" of being in a theater. If i have a deep sense of fear about a place, i dont go there.
I too was afraid to goto the theater after the shooting as well, I won't lie. But should that prevent me from being able to goto the theater now, because I have to live in fear? Or should I have the right to defend my own life, as provided by our countries Constitution? The 2nd Amendment is not a privilege in my opinion, it is a right. I know many disagree who believe in gun control and tighter regulations, but we can clearly see that regulations and gun control do not prevent mass shootings, do not prevent gun crime, and do not prevent people from doing evil things. People will still kill and murder even without guns. The only reasonable solution that I could possibly consider to decrease gun violence is to put arms in the hands of the innocent bystanders and civilians, to increase their chances of survival and to reduce the chances of murderers successfully killing a large group of people. It would be a lot harder to shoot up a theater when you have to worry about guys like this there, who are ready to react and provide support (i.e. his medical supplies... if he really was a bad guy, would he bring medical supplies? sounds to me like he wanted to help and stand by for support).
I see nothing wrong with this guy, but to automatically assume he is evil or bad just cause he went into a theater with a gun and some knives is playing into the same media hype that portrays all gun owners as evil sinister madmen. We are not evil sinister madmen and I'm tired of being portrayed as such.
Everyone should have the right to defend themselves, anywhere, anytime. I honestly believe that and I won't apologize to those who disagree but I will respectfully say that we can agree to disagree.
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Laws being stupid has nothing to do with whether they should be obeyed or not. By knowingly breaking a law (stupid or otherwise) it actually does make you a criminal. Yes, I meant hid. My thumbs are fat like sausages and I'm posting from my phone. You are right, they didnt have any right to search his shit until he gave them that right.
If you are being held in jail and divulging that you take blood thinners for a heart condition or insulin for diabetes could help clear your name, i doubt you'd be claiming your right to privacy. If it was something that you needed to stay alive you would at least ask the police to provide you with your prescription.
You are right about dudes discharge. It could have been for some innocuous reason, but then again, it could have been because he is fucking crazy too.
There isnt anything wrong with owning body armor, but owning several? Seems kinda erratic to me. Add that to the other odd things to this and its just another red flag.
You have every right to go somewhere if you want to, but why go there if its going to terrify you? Even when I'm carrying i try to avoid places that i think i may NEED to be carrying.
I have my ccw and am not trying to demonise anyone. The facts in this story just speak pretty loudly, i feel.
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In my state this is a simple misdemeanor, and you should not be arrested. Fined, yes. Weapon temporarily confiscated, sure. Arrested so that it goes on your permanent record? Nope, fuck that.
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Not sure about the actual laws in Ohio, but I know they are more restrictive than my home state, and here you go to jail for that. Once again, dude knew it was wrong and did it anyway.
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Something similar happened in Maine, but in that case, the guy pretty clearly has issues and probably should be disarmed.
The "machine gun" line in that article seems highly dubious to me, though.
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Sure, these days it's assumed that guns can not be used for good or lawful purposes, therefore anyone should cry in terror when they see a gun and call for the police. Those who dare try to protect themselves should be arrested and taught a lesson that only the police are available for protection.
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Except the part where the police are not liable for protection of you, as a person. They are just there to clean up after.
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More people need to understand this fact.
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I get the feeling there's more to this story than we're hearing.
I don't think he's there to kill people but I thought I read that he didn't have a CCW permit.
This story stinks, on all sides.
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He was open carrying, according to another report. Who the fuck knows?
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Both reports state that he was CC'ing.
Also he had a Maxpidition bag like the one showed here. It has a separate compartment for firearms. If he was outright open carrying he'd never be allowed in the movie theater
My take on the contents of the bag is this: Glock with back up mags, medical supplies in the form of military first aid kit, and I thought I read he needed insulin but don't quote me on that.
The guy seems like a preper but broke the law buy not having a permit.
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The police handled it wrong in that they shouldn't have searched him but he did consented so his fault there.
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The reporters handled it wrong by reporting it as a crisis averted.
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And he should have never been carrying the gun without a permit
Everyone screwed up.
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I agree. If anything, he's proving a point by this act of civil disobedience. As in, i shouldn't need a permit to protect myself from a maniac.
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he's proving a point
While I agree with you, I still feel braking the law is no way to go about raising awareness for the things that you believe in. Also none of this would of happened if he didn't consent to the search. If he just kept his mouth shut and complied when they would have told him to leave (after not letting them look in his bag) then there would be no problem.
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Well stated.
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It's from CNN, what do you expect?
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Downvoted by mindless drones who believe one news network bullshits them less than any other...
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Wait, is this the opposite part of Reddit that likes Fox News and respects their accurate, unbiased coverage? Just trying to feel my way through this subreddit.
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Not sure who ever was talking about FOX except the people that constantly bring up FOX over and over and over and only constantly talk about FOX and when anything bad is in the news they point to FOX and if anything is told incorrectly or misinformed it must have come from FOX and if it's negative and biased, oh yeah, must be FOX... FOX?
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I think one thing all reasonable people can agree on, is that the only sane response to the recent shootings is paranoid hysteria.
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Time to start a neighborhood watch! Oh, wait.
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Is it really illegal to carry in a theater in Ohio??
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Nothing specific at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Ohio but any owner of property can say otherwise.
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Even if they have signs up, the worst that can happen (here in Oregon) is they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, it's a trespass charge.
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True, but imagine that you are the manager, probably scared shitless because you've been watching too much news. Would you go up to a possibly armed person, alone or with a 17 year old ticket ripper, and ask him to leave? Or would you get a cop to do it?
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Aye
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The manager (and one or more of his staff) should be trained in the use of and know the location of (or carry on them) a weapon. At every store.
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It depends on the theater, some have signs up. No weapons signs carry the force of law in Ohio. The one I go to doesn't have a sign and I am carrying almost every time I am in there.
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[deleted]
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No, he didn't have a permit to carry.
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Dude sounds like an asshole who makes responsible gun owners look like weirdos.
Zimmerman'd so to speak.
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Of course it's real, it's on the internet.
That said, the internet is part of the problem with all of these reports of shit in theaters lately.
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He does have some credibility here, the media is amping up every and any situation involving guns and 9 times out of 10 the gun guys are made out to look like psycho mass murderers even if they had no ill intentions. It's out of control. Not everyone carrying a gun or weapons around is a threat to society. The media disagrees, sadly, and is constantly shoving this opinion in everyone's faces.
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and spoons made me fat.
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WHAT. THE. FUCK.
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[deleted]
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How many people were in that theatre? 50? That's 50 people who were searched without consent/under color of law with no RAS of an actual crime being committed. That's 50 lawsuits that SHOULD be brought against these cops.
I've Openly Carried my firearm to see a movie since the Aurora nutjob shot up the place. It was the Dark Knight to boot. No cops showing up, no patrons running screaming. The difference is I chose a theatre that WELCOMES the patrons to carry, as that makes it safer for everyone there.
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Hey look, a video I'm not going to watch.
When I saw this article, I was very disturbed. I carry these things on my person (Glock and mags, knives) or in a bag in my car (the rest of the stuff he had). Taking this stuff into a movie theater warrants a search of my home, seizure of all my firearms, and search and seizure of my computer?
My favorite part of one article I read was about "items included quick clotting bandage and a tablet that when dropped in water would make it safe to drink." as if the guy's masterful plan was to murder everyone and then camp out by the toilet.
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He looks like a big dude, I know a couple of guys who are just a bit to fat to conceal carry in the summer. They both typically open carry in the summer but one of them has a bag like that shown and does carry in it sometimes.
What like insulin? Maybe heart medication? They are being vague to cause fear.
That's my prime choice as well, I want to see the whole screen.
It's also CNN, this makes it bullshit. Not to say other news agencies aren't but they seem to be the top.
This is not true. No prescription medications make you ineligible to buy a gun. Only being dependent on them or illegally abusing them makes you ineligible, AFAIK.
You are correct.
Many people are dependent on insulin, but I get what you mean. Is there a regulation on people with mental health issues (it's been a while since I filled out the form)? Because, honestly, I wouldn't want someone who is on Haldol, Thorazine, or Lithium to have a gun then go off their meds.
Only if you have been adjucated mentally defective, or involuntarily confined to a mental health facility.
"Are you mentally divergent, friend?"
to provoke discussion, what about patients with visual field defects? Homonymous hemianopsia, or scotopic vision?
Should someone who literally cannot "see" anything to their left, be able to obtain a CCW permit?
Yes, it would be no different than someone with a glass eye or other vision problems, either they deal with the missing field of view or get it corrected. In fact my LT when I was in scouts was legally blind without his glasses or contacts (extreme near sighted, he couldn't see anything past a few inches from his face). The people you are talking about learn not to put things in that blind spot, like when they read, so if they need to use their gun all they have to do is turn their head a little.
i don't know about other states but in AL, if you're on antidepressants, you can "fail" the background check and thus be inelligible.
Oh wow, yeah I didn't know about that. I also know that according to the ATF certain other medical situations are supposedly disqualifiers even though there are no actual laws that says so, just the ATF saying what they "interpret" laws to mean... guess the ATF writes laws now lol
it makes sense in a way. if someone has a history of trying to commit suicide, handing them a gun would be irresponsible. like how i know my kid is going to sneak cookies but i can at least do my best to stop it :P
What utter bullshit.
I carry a slingpack in olive drab that looks "tactical". In it I have a mini first aid kit, a multitool with a knife, my wallet, other stuff, a spare magazine, my insulin, and sometimes my Ruger LCP if I don't feel like pocket carrying. I can't carry my insulin any other way in Florida without it burning up. I need my slingpack with an ice pack. I just saw Total Recall this past weekend and had that bag with me. There were uniformed cops in the theater and they didn't even give me a second look. It better stay that way.
So what they're saying is, since I have a prescription for Adderall, I am inelligible for concealed carry? What dumbasses.
It probably depends on the meds, I don't think ADD would count. The drugs I was thinking about were for schizophrenia and bi-polar (bears).
From ATF form 4473, question 11e. Prescription drugs don't count unless you're using them illegally (i.e. using Grandpa's Vicodin for fun) or have an addiction to them.
Nope, so I guess I'm good! And i kinda had a feeling that was the case I was more referring to the article's ignorance by stating that having prescription medications makes you inelligible for gun ownership. Why can't we fix the stupid?
I figured that you were talking about their ignorance and weren't confused about the law, I just wanted to put the real information out there for anyone reading.
UPDATE: He indeed had a permit and was carrying it in a holster. http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/armed_man_arrested_at_batman_movie/