Source
r/Civcraft•
TheLemonTree

Unrealistic Secrecy

I'm having a lot of fun on this server, but one thing is a bit odd and doesn't really tie in to the experiment - and that is all the secrecy. There's a few places I know the name of but don't know where are they are, and I'm sure there's plenty that I haven't even heard of.

It just doesn't really make sense to me, there isn't a war (that I know if ) - what is this secrecy meant to be "simulating"? I don't know of any real life example where people started secret towns and secret countries - the only exceptions are wartime and military.

I know griefers exist, but that problem should be solved by citadel. The secrecy detracts from the realism in my opinion. I still respect the wishes of the (many) places I have visited which wish to remain hidden, but I salute the towns such as Columbia that are known to all.

Posted Apr 21, 2012, 4:12 PM UTC

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johnelderboneromeslur. Nomad•

Griefers are to blame. Im running a small NPC village, with testificates there, but I've pu a wall around it and sent the coordinates through private message. It's one of the last NPC villages, so I'm trying to keep it safe.

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redpossum>laypeople G E N U I N E L Y talking about the law•

you should start exporting npcs

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johnelderboneromeslur. Nomad•

And iron from the golems

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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johnelderboneromeslur. Nomad•

Notice that too, I'll have to push them in a 1x2 tunnel

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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ttk2MODDrama Management Specialist •

Prisonbeds is supposed to work in tandem with Citadel to make any raid a real risk of getting effectively banned or enslaved through imprisonment (simulating real risk of death).

Since we are working on fixing prisonbeds Citadel is only half of a whole solution, once its fixed we will be revealing the location of the secret ancap cities and i expect we will see less secrecy.

Sorry for the wait, but glitches happen.

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nonporous•

When you say "fixing prisonbeds" are you referring to all the changes mentioned in that post where you suggested using the end as a prison?

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ttk2MODDrama Management Specialist •

in the end chrisrico (our main coder) has decided on something more conservative (as in based in the over world) with the same feature set.

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interfectGet off my lawn!•

How is the progress? I don't see anything on this Github page.

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ttk2Drama Management Specialist •

He tries to only push stable changes, he has a early alpha build that is quite glitchy. I have not heard from him in a couple of days, come to think of it i will go and check in with him.

Edit: See here for more details.

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Six_of_SpadesFarful•

To simulate a risk of death, wouldn't it be better to have an ever increasing ban for each time you die? Like, 1st death- no respawn time, 2nd death- 1 hr ban, 3rd death- 2 hr ban, 4th death- 3 hr ban, 5th death- 5 hr ban, 6th death- 8 hr ban, 7th death- 12 hr ban, etc.

Just food for thought.

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not_a_novel_account[nickelpro] I administer Spock and Spock accessories•

Why did you have to put Yellow Flower in your name? God dammit farf

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Six_of_SpadesFarful•

People already know I'm from it.

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not_a_novel_account[nickelpro] I administer Spock and Spock accessories•

I was referring to the fact that I now know who you are on Reddit

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AskaladFormer Consul | (co)Founder of Kizantium | Wanderer•

It really is the griefers.

I am consul of a town that nobody really knows of, and we haven't released the location simply because (even though we have everything protected by citadel), we're terrified of a dedicated band of either raiders, xrayers, or griefers showing up and taking everything we've worked for.

If you wish, I'd drop you the coords of my town, but we again wish our privacy to remain intact.

The problem definitely isn't stopped entirely by citadel. It's stopped by community action, by 'kill on sight' lists, as well as citadel.

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notveryblueNotsoblue•

The problem definitely isn't stopped entirely by citadel. It's stopped by community action, by 'kill on sight' lists, as well as citadel.

Yep, exactly that. Settlements need to either be hidden or populated enough to police their areas.

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CricketPinataFlowershop Owner and Antigovernment Partisan•

Well, there is an openness in the real world, but only after you have enough people to protect yourself.

Think about in the old-west, when Bandits came to town, people closed their windows up and hid. Only having "Sheriffs" walking around, and people having the proper equipment and numbers to defend themselves can people start being more open.

Right now we're still figuring out how to fortify and protect stuff. It just takes time to figure out all the in's and out's of the system.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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ToastedspikesPrince of the Principality of Loveshack•

Bandits. Advertised towns such as Columbia and Mount Augustus are subject to often raids and attacks by ne'erdowells. They have, seemingly, enough population, organisation and weaponry to withstand them and can thus afford to be open. However, especially the LSIF cities and communes, numbering with more than 80 people, are secretive precisely because of raiders, but also because they don't need to be openly known. Capitalist settlements need to be openly known in order to let trade fluorish. Of course, that brings bandits too.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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CricketPinataFlowershop Owner and Antigovernment Partisan•

It isn't going to stay that way permanently though. It's going to be an open city when it's done.

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nomothetique•

I think both the commies and capitalists have some misunderstanding of economics and their own ideologies. I guess I don't know what really goes on in communes, but I am assuming they are actually pretty laissez faire.

AnCaps shouldn't be opposed to collective vs. individual action or property. What they should be opposed to is aggression, but I have read things here against "collectivism". Does LSIF have a dedicated position to telling people how much iron they "need" and shaking them down if they don't contribute enough? Do they treat capitalist cities as criminals and attempt to assimilate them?

Another problem is just with minecraft and how small the economy is. Trading on a small scale is pointless and there is no good medium of exchange (money). Half or more of people are opposed to bitcoins and won't use them. The chest system is "dumb barter" like what communists who want to abolish money would have in a society. In most cases it isn't worth my time to hash out a trade for 4 or 6 iron, when I can just go find some iron in that time.

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CricketPinataFlowershop Owner and Antigovernment Partisan•

The AnCaps, 1. Aren't a unified group. 2. As far as I know are not against the communes at all.

If people want to live in communes they are free to do so under a AnCap society, and i've never heard anyone saying otherwise.

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[deleted]•

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about wrt to AnCaps. The whole ideology rests firmly on the NAP (ie Non-Aggression Principle). There is nothing in AnCap that forbids anyone from doing anything, including forming communes, as long as no one is coerced and property is respected.

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nomothetique•

Maybe you are having reading comprehension issues? I never said what you are saying I am.

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ToastedspikesPrince of the Principality of Loveshack•

They don't HAVE to, but it does improve trade, and thus raises profits.

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RunescribeCogmaster•

Citadel only Solves greifing if you have the materials and means to reinforce every single block of your structures with at least iron. Thus, secrecy saves iron, and money.

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TheJDTheJDz; King of Epicus; Lord of New Epicus; Master Axeman•

Actually Citadel never solves griefing, it only delays it. Echanted diamond pickaxes and axes help speed it up but eventually anything you own can be broken into or stolen.

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RunescribeCogmaster•

Citadel stops any griefer who is too lazy to work his way into your diamond-reinforced, trap-filled, not-worth-it base. Technically it can be broken, but only if the griefer is as motivated as all hell.

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TheJDTheJDz; King of Epicus; Lord of New Epicus; Master Axeman•

Anyone who had a vault that takes hours to break into probably has resources that take a long longer than hours to aquire. And you're right, it stops lazy griefers but it doesn't stop all griefers. I'd imagine they'd get more enjoyment out of breaking into a "secure" base and taking out a diamond reinforced chest.

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SnarkleberryKrumsvillian•

We released our location, and then someone came by and somehow found our sealed underground iron fortified vault, and took everything we have. The point of this server is to build and interact with others, but if there are going to be people using illegal mods with no time on their hands with the sole purpose of taking our shit, I don't think I'm going to be playing this anymore. It seems the only way to be safe is to dedicate hours upon hours just fortifying your blocks, which we did, and we still lost everything. It was fun while it lasted.

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valadianberge403,Co-founder of New Bergois Commune•

I agree, citadel in its present state is not quite strong enough to stop griefers. If you release your location, then they will find it.

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notveryblueNotsoblue•

I think the cheapest reliable vault is iron reinforced obsidian, containing diamond locked chests. Anything less and people will get through it fairly quickly. Its definitely worth the investment and if there are a few of you it shouldn't take too long.

The best security is to have an active settlement with people online most of the time. If your stash is hidden away far from anyone else then a thief can enter your base and just go AFK with a weight on their mousebutton until they've broken through.

I've been pretty nomadic since Winterfell was made a target by griefers, and others have scattered too. All my own and Winterfell shared valuables are kept in obsidian vaults that have been built in the major cities.

Its worth investing in a decent vault in a populous, well policed area. And you should make it a considerable time investment and risk to break into. Ultimately, griefers and thieves are lazy people, and if its too hard they won't bother.

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ProjectD13XAnti-social Hermit•

I had an open settlement, it went downhill, my new secret underground base is pretty awesome

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WrlBNHtpAWspectator•

I don't know of any real life example where people started secret towns

I think this is an interesting point. This might reflect that towns were founded usually under a central authority (imperial settlement, royal charter, government incorporation, colonial settlement, etc). So at least on an administrative level someone would have to know about it, and then it would probably be more beneficial to that central authority to not keep it a secret for the purposes of moving goods and people.

That is, of course, just speculation however.

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Blockcocker4simple country folk•

The Soviet Union had entire cities that stayed off the maps and whose location was kept secret for strategic reasons. Granted, Civcraft sees this on a much more significant level, but the world is still young and developing communities are vulnerable. It may change in the long run.

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azlineaBlueberries.•

Citadel is useful for protecting entire cities but to get the entire city protected it does take a bit of secrecy. There isn't exactly a correlation between this secrecy and a real life equivalent but at the same time when a city or town is established in the real world people are there 24/7 even if they are asleep, so they can protect it in a moment's notice. Effectively its an adjustment we, speaking of the ancaps here, have had to adjust to to set up cities.

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throwaway-oNo me gusta la verga.•

the only exceptions are wartime

There's your answer. We are in wartime because griefers want us to be.

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