How do I go about starting a romantic relationship with a friend?
Posted Mar 25, 2009, 2:46 PM UTC
159419
The way I transitioned my best friendship into a relationship was by proposing a bet as to who could go the longest without masturbating. Then we started teasing each other to try and get the other to lose. Then I started rubbing his dick under a blanket, and then I spent the night, and then we were in a relationship. Voila!
Heh, this might not work for everyone.
43
similar story about how I ended up in jail
44
I'm wondering if you're a lady now.
Because that might get a fella socked in the jaw, some parts of the country.
18
I am indeed a lady, heh.
1
Wanna be friends?
1
Whoa, this happened pretty much the exact same way with one of my exes.
4
I kept waiting for the Bel-Air...
I am disappointed.
3
If you rubbed his dick, then who technically won the bet?
2
He did. I had caved and masturbated earlier that day, but I let him believe I hadn't and made it as agonizing as possible for him for the rest of the night. I confessed later on in bed.
1
become a stalker
not legal advice
27
(I'm a girl btw)
Ask her out for a coffee or drink or something. Take her hand and gently tell her how you feel. Keep it fairly low key. If she reacts positively, give her a kiss and take it from there :).
If she reacts negatively, move out of her personal space and say something along the lines of "Don't worry, in any case I like having you as a friend" and change the subject. But wait for her response before you say this!
Don't be too worried about awkwardness. I've had much more awkward shit happen and still been able to carry on a civil conversation with someone.
Good luck dude!
26
(I'm a guy btw)
I'm curious....as a girl are you ever surprised when a guy changes the conversation and tells you how he feels? Or do you generally pay attention to cues and expect it before he opens up?
15
Ha! Personally in the past I've always been totally shocked when the guy made his move... but in a good way :)
But more generally, if a girl has a reasonable amount of experience with interacting with men, then she may well be able to tell if she's fancied.
8
Thanks for answering....I find most girls have the same response and, if I may speak on behalf of many geek males like myself, it's very unexpected. We go in there assuming you've been picking up on our cues for a while, because we ourselves pay close attention to cues from people we interact with, and we assume you're just waiting for us to make the first move. When we finally muster up the courage to do that, we are shocked to find that you're not even on the same page as us.
My two cents, anyway. I'm married now and it's fascinating to talk about when we were younger and hear the dating scene from the girl's point of view. For kicks I asked her the same question above, about her dating life before we met, and she gave pretty much the same answer.
5
"We go in there assuming you've been picking up on our cues for a while, because we ourselves pay close attention to cues from people we interact with"
I think we also become masters of NOT giving off cues. We never want to put the friendship at risk or risk rejection so we always mask our true intentions so that we can have a cover story. If things go wrong we can say she misunderstood what we were saying.
5
I think my problem is not the awkwardness of the conversation, but I actually get nervous if she were to say "yes"... I kind of don't want them to say "yes" because I would have no idea what to do at that point.
I just plain don't talk to people, so what would a meal or other social construct be like with someone who I don't even know? I've gone to lunch with coworkers, but it only works because it's usually 3+ people and the other people know how to talk. My "best" friend is someone I speak to maybe once every 3 or 4 months. I just don't like talking unless it has a specific reason related to my job or school, and [my](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game\)) main [hobbies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_(process\)) are really obscure or done alone.
3
You should start a AskReddit post.
5
In case you wanted more details, I fleshed it out a bit and made an AskReddit post like you suggested.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/87hwi/im_more_than_socially_awkward_i_want_a_girlfriend/
I doubt it will change anything but it can't hurt, thanks.
1
What is it about the touching that is so critical? It seems like such a small thing to touch her hand. I've found this to be a big difference between a guy who remains a friend (and wants more) and a guy who becomes very significant to the girl.
I think most guys are raised under the assumption that touching is bad - even if it's just the hand. I like what you said, if she reacts negatively just give her some space and drop it.
What is your opinion on a guy paying for everything when he is trying to get you to be his girlfriend?
3
Oxytocin. Being touched makes us girls feel good. It increases trust and reduces fear.
This is why ecstasy is so popular, it increases feelings of love, empathy and connection to others by stimulating oxytocin activity.
Haven't you ever wondered why so many girls just melt when you give them a massage?
5
What is your opinion on a guy paying for everything when he is trying to get you to be his girlfriend?
Personally I feel more comfortable splitting costs on early dates. I'd feel a little uncomfortable if a guy insisted on paying for everything, as I would imagine that he was expecting me to return on his investment. But not being too pissy about it either way is good.
I've heard that the way you deal with things like this early on is a good indicator of how things will pan out later (i.e. if the guy pays for everything, he will end up doing most of the financial heavy lifting, and so on).
2
"But not being too pissy about it either way is good."
Okay, so imagine you and I are out on the town and everything is going really good. We are laughing, talking, having fun, and you like when I hold you. We stop and look at some delicious cookies in the window of a special bakery on you say "buy me a cookie" and I say "BUY YOUR OWN GOD DAMN COOKIE!" Is that going to turn you off? :-)
1
Depends how much I wanted a cookie :)
3
[deleted]
1
normally I downvote women's stupid advice on principle, but you've been upvoted for the first sane response from a girl
Kudos!
Edit: yea.. you have the only sane response in this whole thread :)
1
Alcohol
21
Exactly! Did no one see http://themikeflynn.com/images/mariorelationship.png
15
Just make sure to keep the 'B' button pressed and jump as soon as you are at the end of the sex wall. You will end up landing on the near infinite line of flying ducks of casual sex, which may just take you all the way across that ocean if you are skilled enough with your jumps. Although chances are high that you will miscue one landing and crash right into the damn thing.
3
Roofiecolata
4
That's how me and my girlfriend of 4 years got together. Friends first then alcohol! BAM! Ocean of regrets (not really baby!)
4
BAM! average sized penis
10
Candy is dandy, but liqueur is quicker.
2
This worked for me quite recently.
1
Just throw some flirts and see if there is any reciprocity. If not, she is not interested, so move forward. Friendship is totally overrated if you like the person sexually. It's always going to make things weird from time to time. Especially if she is dating other guys.
Personally I'd rather know where I stand than live my life never knowing. People think that just because you dated a girl, you can never be friends with them again. That isn't the case. It all depends on how you break up, and even if it was badly, time heals wounds. I'm friends with a few of my ex's.
Just go for it, and don't be a pussy by doing it on online or facebook. You'll probably succeed better if you have the balls to do it in person. Good luck
19
You gotta finger her, and see what she says. The key to her heart is through her friends, if her friends think you have a chance then you should go for it because girls talk about all that shit all the time.
16
You gotta finger her, and see what she says.
Maybe this should come after he expresses his feelings for her?
27
As a unix nerd I automatically considered the "finger" command which probes a user for information they first entered when adding the user originally. It seemed appropriate here.
4
Uh huh. Some things may be better left unsaid.
1
It works better before that.
1
I never lol'd so hard at a comment on reddit.
8
LoL :-) I actually agree with this comment (except for the finger thing).
Ask one of her (female) friends if she thinks you have a shot. It's kind of "Jr. High" but you'll get your answer.
Also, a little wine helps. ;-)
3
You gotta finger her, and see what she says.
Then you say:
The key to her heart is through her friends, if her friends think you have a chance then you should go for it because girls talk about all that shit all the time.
Apparently if he was already fingering her he found out that he does have a chance.
(wtf)
2
wut? Hot damn, that is a great comment.
1
How to Get Out of Friend Zone
-
Take some time off. You're friends with her. She sees you as a friend. Take a few weeks off without talking. Get busy. Go away for a while. Then when you come back it's easier to transition out of it. But that alone isn't enough.
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Physical contact. Start with friendly contact. Most guys don't do enough of this. A tap on the forearm with the back of your hand during conversation, when she says something interesting or you are exclaming something. A high five or a playful shove. Then move onto the non-sexual-yet-clearly-not-friends zones: touch her hair (while asking where she gets it done), grab her hand (while saying you want to look at her rings), give her a touch on the knee during conversation.
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Get a little flirty. Most guys won't know how to flirt. The easiest way is to joke about her wanting you. When you go to hang out, say "You're not going to get me drunk and try to sleep with me, are you?" "Do you like this shirt, or is it too sexy?" "You're not going to get too turned on if I sit this close to you, are you?" You're joking of course, so say it with a wink.
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Make the move. This is up to you. You need to make the move. You need to go for it. You're the guy. But you want to do it in a way that has the most chance of success. Telling her how you feel can be fine, but do it in a way that she can reciprocate and the making out can begin. Don't do it on the phone. Don't do it over e-mail. Do it in person. And expect her to say yes. Go for the make-out. Be a man about it.
Eric
11
touch her hair (while asking where she gets it done)
Yup, because that won't sound gay at all...
6
Fuck this noise. Ignore anyone giving you long complicated strategies. Wait until you're hanging out with her, and while you two are having a good time, confidently but not arrogantly say "You should be my girlfriend". If there was a chance, this'll work. If there wasn't, nothing anyone tells you will work.
This has worked for me multiple times.
9
I agree with PPSF. Self-confidence is a requirement, and you're throwing it out there as a statement, not as a question. "Will you marry me?" is a question and it's only appropriate when you're both romantic. You're no where near that point right now, you're non-romantic best friends.
That timing (while you're having a good time) is also good, it's when you're both relaxed. If either of you are nervous you'll overthink the situation. Don't go all elaborate with romance and during some special moment ask her out, that's backwards: ask her out first in a fun and informal way, then later you get romantic when you're on a date.
6
hahahah
stupid shit
-6
You should write her a book... Let us know how it goes!
9
[deleted]
7
Or, try the old penis in the popcorn trick
Works every time
I can confirm this.
16
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
7
Good luck dude, good luck. It's so hard to jump from the friendship ladder to the sexy time ladder. But if you can manage to do it...I envy you
I'm firm in my belief that best friends make the best spouses, since they genuinely enjoy each other's company and have more ground than just someone who's romantically and sexually engaged in the other person
7
Friend: Whatever happens in the end, I don't wanna lose you as my friend.
You: I promise, I will never be your friend. No matter what. Ever.
Friend: If we fuck I'm gonna feel like shit tomorrow.
You: That's okay with me.
That should just about cover it...
7
Too much advice = no advice. If you listen to too many people, you'll never really do anything. Go with your gut. You're young enough to move on and learn from it, whatever the worst-case scenario might be. Maybe in a week you'll regret it. Maybe in two weeks you won't.
6
Sleep with her best friend.
6
I'm not sure it's possible to find out if a friend likes you without risking the friendship but it really depends on how you both react afterwards. I had a friend who liked me but when I told her I wasn't interested she started acting like a bitch and to this day is openly jealous when I spend my time with other girls. I had never seen that side of her and I wouldn't consider us friends anymore, we are just both friends with the same people. On the other hand, I have liked friends but they have not been interested but we still get along great because I don't act any differently around them than I have before.
If you still want to have a strong friendship than at least be prepared to deal with it if she turns you down. Don't shun her, don't try and get her to change her mind and don't spend the next 6 months asking her why not. If you tell her how you feel but get turned down and it's her that changes completely and no longer wants to be friends then perhaps it's better off that you aren't together. You may not like the side of her you see then.
5
surprise buttsecs
She'll love you forever
5
Does she flirt with you at all? Look at the body language.
Tonight when you are together see if she gets close, brushes up against you, grabs your hand, shoulder, looks at you in a linger and smiles a lot, sits next to you, doesn't pay attention to people walking by, etc. It could be subtle but look for it.
If all the tell tale signs are there KISS HER!
I'm a chick. That's how we roll.
5
and after the kiss then the buttsecs?
-3
Dont vote down so quick
OBVIOUSLY he should use lube, they're not related. Geeessssh
0
Tip- don't.
The exchange is not worth it. Friends are more valuable than fucks.
Never trade a fuck for a friend, you can get fucks that aren't friends and discard them when done.
3
It seems the OP was asking for advice on how to start a relationship, not turn a friend into a friend-with-benefits.
Unless you consider them to be one and the same.
9
I hold very few illusions when it comes to the slotted ones.
-1
A relationship includes friendship. Or it should at least.
5
Absolutely. But you also run the risk of ruining the friendship if the relationship should turn south...
1
I guess that's one way to make it sting more when it's over. ;-)
But more seriously.. when you have an established relationship based on non-sexual attraction you can be in for a shock when all of those things that you have in common don't amount to a hill of beans as far as what gets her hot.
Sometimes people you don't like and literally hate (because of their ability to make bad decisions easy for you to choose because it will please them) are the most volcanic in the sack, better than any healthy loving friend based relationship could be.
Kind of like an exotic car that breaks down all the time but looks amazing.
I'm of the mind of being single, having platonic LTR's with the ladies and having that be my certificate of fuckability for their random throway friends. Oh he's cool, you have to meet him..
WIN
My extreme heavy poaching days where that seemed like a big accomplishment and I wanted to rack up as many kills as possible are over, I'd rather have someone I can trust that I don't even fuck, that's far more valuable.
-4
I can agree with all of the above but I like some trust and chemistry in the sack as well.
1
yeah, but we all know once you know someone inside and out, there's something missing compared to a little danger of a fresh hunt.
0
I'd say your same-gender friends are more valuable than fucks. I don't believe in true platonic male-female relationships. If you really do like that person it's a sexually-repressed relationship at best.
-2
You just need to get older to believe it can occur.
It's a different headspace, not a different bodyspace. I could see fucking a friend under certain conditions where it was agreed to be a one shot deal with no emotion and we both agree to never talk about it after. That can work, but you need to be a level of maturity most people will never attain in this lifetime.
2
You may have misunderstood me - I'm not saying that men and women can't be friends - I just don't believe it can ever be 100% platonic: If you like that person enough for them to actually be a really good friend, then you'll develop sexual and/or romantic feelings for them eventually.
If you fuck them, and then later agree it was a one shot deal with no emotions attached, and you'll never talk about it again, then you're just repressing it. You can still be friends, and pretend like it didn't happen, but for one or both of you it'll still be in the back of your mind.
Also, how man straight people have really good friendships with someone of the opposite gender who is horribly unattractive? Not a large percent. May be a base and shallow way to look at it, but it's something to think about.
5
I've been friends with men and women who were seriously unattractive...
1
desire can crop up at anytime, action is what you have control over. I've looked at women I totally hate and loathe and if the weather is right, I might think about fucking them for a moment and then go, snap out of it man, wth are you thinking!.
-1
I second this. The only time I think it can occur is once a man has reached the age of limp dickness. As long as I have a penis that functions, I will be coming up with creative ways to get it wet. This includes friends, neighbors, meter maids, and the occasional lunch lady too.
2
Hey reddit, here's the deal. I have known this girl for about a year now and we are pretty good friends through school. I went bowling with her and some of her friends yesterday and I had so many good opportunities to make a move, but I didn't. A combination of nervousness and fear of rejection, I suppose. Normally I couldn't give a damn about rejection: I've asked girls out before but they've all been near-complete strangers so even if they slapped me in the face or straight up said no I wouldn't give a damn 10 minutes later and I'd never have to see them again. But this girl I know personally and I see her for several hours a week through various activities and the next several months could be made very awkward for me if I do something wrong.
But I figure what the hell, I can't go on being a pansy forever. Your know the quote, "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" So now that I'm going to ask her out, I just need to decide how I'm going to go about it. Is an online message on facebook acceptable form, or should I just man up and call her? I'm going to have to be a little more direct than "Want to go out for lunch sometime?" because we've already done stuff like that as friends. I almost want to add in a quick clause to my proposal saying "It's ok if you say no we can still be friends" just to cover my ass, but it screams weakness, no?
Whatever I'm doing, I'm going to do it later tonight because I've thought about this for weeks and it's gotten to the point where I'd rather hear a "no" than think about it any longer. Hell, I've barely even thought about what I'll say if I get a "yes", which for all of my apparent patheticness probably isn't terribly unlikely.
Advice appreciated, as always.
Update 1: Wow, lots more replies than I predicted. I appreciate it, really. I think that many of you misunderstand my situation, but I suppose that's my fault for not going into tons of detail, but whatever. I'm not about to spend hours transcribing the events of the past year of my life, and I've gotten some good responses as it is.
I'm going to give her a call tomorrow (I'm glad you all resoundingly nixed the facebook idea) once I'm back from visiting my friend (I'm on the train right now) and I'll just be straightforward and honest with her. I'd do it in person, but if I invite her somewhere without first making clear it's a date, she'll probably bring friend(s) with and that would foil my plot.
I'll get back to you guys with the result tomorrow. And I'm thinking about recording the phone call for future comedic value :) At best we can reminisce about it on our wedding day... at worst I can post it to r/funny!
Update 2: Captain's Log, March 26, 1:08pm CST -
I'm calling her now, I'll get back in a few. If things are going really well, I've considered using the line "I am a ferocious man raptor, and I wanted to know if you want to see a movie later tonight". Maybe. Damn, I wish I had some method of recording my cell calls.
Okay fucko, we're going to do this and we're going to do it right. Repeat after me, "I am a ferocious man-raptor." Say it out loud a few times. Ha, you look like an idiot saying that shit. But that is the fucking point. You need to not think about appearing stupid for this to work. Don't give a fuck needs to be your motto.
Look, give up on that facebook, calling, pansy bullshit. You need to get this girl alone and unsuspecting in a breezy confident who-cares sort of way. "Want to get some pizza?" or "Hey come over and watch this movie I torrented because I'm a pussy P2P fag" are good ways. Then you have two options.
Scoop her up and deposit her on your bed and then start to take her clothes off. No SHUT UP. You are thinking about it right now. Don't think about it, just fucking do it. MAN-RAPTOR. In some universe, her girlbrain's wave-function will collapse into the state where she goes with it and you guys make out, and you just need to assume that that universe is this universe.
If you're too chickenshit for that, and god knows most mortal men are, then just ask her if she wants to go on a date. But don't fucking build up to that shit nervously, girls can sense this a mile away and they hate that bullshit. Their clit-sense tingles, or whatever, jesus I have no idea how they do it. Just hang out with her for a while normally first, and when she is laughing at one of your lamo jokes, confidently just be like "Hey let's go out on a date!" like you're asking her to some kind of stupid movie. Are you thinking about this? Don't. The EXACT inflection and intonation of your voice should PRECISELY match how you would ask the most innocent question ever, where you don't give a fuck if she isn't into it.
Godspeed, you poor bastard. Godspeed.
Spoiler Alert: Do Not Read The Rest Until After You Have Executed The Preceding Instructions
When you have failed because you have no chance and you know it, there is a handy guide for dealing with the subsequent fallout.
You had me at "I am a ferocious man-raptor."
He had me at "Okay fucko"
He's had me, before.
[deleted]
[deleted]
yea
You know, despite how much I'm starting to hate the influx of "Dear reddit, I have never talked to a girl before" posts (do you people think the advice will be any different this time around?), you have nonetheless made this one worthwhile.
I agree with the contrast between how much I hate these types of posts with how much I think this guy may be right.
spring time, post xmas, NYE, and valentines day
Also important: If she says no, and you're tempted to remain friends after that point, you need to honestly ask yourself if you're only doing so because you're still holding out hope that she'll change her mind about you one day.
If that's the case, no matter how hard it might be, you need to stop being friends with her. The longer you wait, the worse it will be.
Yes, if she doesn't change her mind about you. But she might.
As a female, let me share a story with you. I was in a similar situation. A guy friend of mine, someone I was close to and loved to hang out and watch movies with (maybe even cuddle sometimes), went out with me one night and it felt like a date all of a sudden. I don't remember how he asked me out because we hung out all of the time, so I didn't realize that it was a date until the middle of it. I had to make it clear to him that I only liked him as a friend, and hoped that we could stay friends.
He took it well. We stayed friends. In fact, he took it very well and started going after another girl. Somewhere in my subconscious this flipped me out (because we all want what we can't have), and I developed a very, very deep crush on him. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever liked anyone more. We didn't end up together - he ended up with the other girl. But he could have had either of us at that point. Use this story to your advantage - don't limit your options, and if she turns you down, don't care and go after someone else.
I know what you're trying to do here, and it's too late. I'm married now. You need to move on.
You got a crush on him because he left you for another girl. Girls are very weird about this: If you reject them they go crazy about you.
If he had hung around you trying to worship the ground you walked on , you would have trampled him with your feet without even knowing about it. Yes, men are weird too.
I would like to point out that you did indeed have a substantial relationship with him at this point, so, if he were to take raidi's advice, he would still have remained friends with you. Raidi's advice is mostly useful if the only thing keeping you in a friendship is the hope of romance, in which case it probably won't happen anyway.
[deleted]
shouldn't you be reading cosmo instead of reddit?
This is possibly the most win post I have ever read, and you, sir, should write a book.
The only way you could get out of it was if you were Dick Masterson and had already written a book, but because you are even considering speaking to a woman as a viable strategy, I would say you are not.
Or if he was Bat Masterson and had already tamed the fucking west.
Bat Masterson Junior High School?
This advice works for everything in life. It sounds weird but I swear you can will yourself to the place where the things you want to happen occur. Corny as it sounds, you just have to fucking believe your goal is an inevitability, it's going to happen, you're just walking the line towards it.
I feel the urge to both mock you for believing in "The Secret", and upvote you for the fact that this is actually a good tactic for tricking yourself into being confident. Confidence overcomes so many of the stupid barriers in life. So, I'll skip the mocking, and just upvote.
See, people mock things like that, they mock "the power of positive thinking", they mock a fake smile to trick your brain into thinking you're happy. Myself, I chose to believe even though I know it's a bit of a sham. A few years of practice and a BS in Psychology have taught me a few things about my brain, consciousness, and perception. Above all, it can be programmed and it can be my choice. For the most part I choose to be angry, stressed, upset, and hurt. While I am forced to react to stimuli (bad news, etc) there is a portion I can control, namely, how I choose to deal with it. Your brain is used to coming up with it's own answers, based on what you've done in the past, what you've seen, what you've heard you're supposed to do. The trick is to bug your brain enough to where it asks you instead of following through with it's own idea.
To the universe idea I addressed in my previous post. I know a bit about QM and the like but I don't try to see this literally. As you said, it is a matter of confidence. In a world where I win the big race I had confidence, I trained every day, I ate right, I did the things someone who was already a winner would do. While I may not know if I'm going to win, I'm going to do everything I can to simulate the 'universe' in which I do win. Which means changing my behavior, living with my choices, doing the best I can, and then letting the rest of the universe respond to me, because I have the confidence to know I'm doing all I can.
Goethe
Thanks for ruining the ending of the book for me.
Well, blind faith and will power does seem to be effective for some things, such as gaining confidence and ambition.
The Secret?
I wish I could express how true this is, but... this is fucking true man lol. I mean, you can't defy the laws of physics or something, but you can do some crazy fucking shit if only you can convince yourself you can. I was clinically insane for the better part of 2 months and I could relate to this so well.
Wait so you were clinically insane before or after using your will to power?
Insanity is an interesting state. One might think a mind with too much control has too much to worry about.
I see you own a wolf shirt too. It's good to have you in the club.
You're jib sir, I like the cut of it.
*your
No damn you. I AM JIB, HEAR ME ROAR.
Awesome. Best of.
Somebody get this guy his own advice column!
Trent: You know what you are? You're like a big bear with claws and with fangs...
Sue: ...big fucking teeth, man.
Trent: Yeah... big fuckin' teeth on ya'. And she's just like this little bunny, who's just kinda cowering in the corner.
Sue: Shivering.
Trent: Yeah, man just kinda... you know, you got these claws and you're staring at these claws and your thinking to yourself, and with these claws you're thinking, "How am I supposed to kill this bunny, how am I supposed to kill this bunny?"
Sue: And you're poking at it, you're poking at it...
Trent: Yeah, you're not hurting it. You're just kinda gently batting the bunny around, you know what I mean? And the bunny's scared Mike, the bunny's scared of you, shivering.
Sue: And you got these fucking claws and these fangs...
Trent: And you got these fucking claws and these fangs, man! And you're looking at your claws and you're looking at your fangs. And you're thinking to yourself, you don't know what to do, man. "I don't know how to kill the bunny." With THIS you don't know how to kill the bunny, do you know what I mean?
-Swingers
Keeping in mind, the way that movie ended, the guy giving the advice turns out to have no idea what's going on. And then Bobby Darin. Which makes everything okay.
Fuck it. Upvoted for Swingers.
(VEGAS BABY, VEGAS!)
Worst cop-out ending ever, until The Tao Of Steve. :P
You should also write a thing or two about the gradual escalation of mutual signals that is flirting.
motivation wolf approves
it's Courage Wolf, motherfucker; get it right
FTFY.
I'm just commenting so I can find this post the next time I want to ask a girl out.
I'm just commenting to let you know that Reddit has a save feature.
Thank you. I now have one saved submission.
I'm a big fan of your work. Your comment to 16-year-old guy in regard to his request for advice on the acquisition of sex was pure gold. You, my man, are steering the next generation in the right direction. I think I will subscribe to your news letter.
Yeah, I think I'm really on to something here. Why am I wasting my god damn time arguing with people about economics.
Can you please set up a r/AskMarlon subreddit?
(✌ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞
As a female, I would like to recommend option one, and say this will likely get you man-raptors laid.
Sorry, I missed what "option one" is...
Great advice. Generally if you are dealing with girls always act nonchalant. Do the right things but act like they come naturally.
Would you like to have sex with me?
Looks like he's busy. Will I do?
I'm a ferocious man-raptor, ya know.
you couldn't be more accurate. the more time you waste thinking about if she'll say yes, the worse your chances get.
I AM A FEROCIOUS MAN-RAPTOR.
Now I am rea- wait, there are no girls within 15 miles of where I am, I'm at an engineering school.
:(
Edit: attractive girls.
So then go out 20 miles. I'm a degree holding engineer, and I've used that line. In retrospect, if I wanted girls, I could have gone out and got them. Don't make the same mistake.
Also, if you have a large penis it helps. You have sex once and she'll tell all her friends and they'll want some too.
you had me at "ferocious man-raptor"
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/87e37/how_do_i_go_about_starting_a_romantic/c08g8qi
Saw that after i posted it. >.<
You need to move here and teach seminars to men.
I prefer the get drunk alone together approach but your's sounds more fun! Will try at next opportunity.
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Maddox? That you?
Are you advocating rape? Because that is probably not the way the best way to build a lasting relationship with someone.
certainly depends on your knot-tying skills...
My knot tying skills are pretty good, but I haven't practice in awhile (ussually practice while I'm camping and I don't camp much in the winter).
Anyways, what exactly does this have to do with building a relationships?
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This is damn near complete bull shit. There are a few points that "MAY" help, but the overall point of this is common knowledge. If you have half a brain this won't help you at all.
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I know this is the Internet and I really shouldn't expect any better. I know that. But I feel compelled to say something anyway.
Jokes about rape are hilarious until it actually happens to someone you know. Suddenly it becomes a lot less funny.
Stuff like this, especially. Because I see how funny it is. Everybody will laugh, nobody will see any harm in it. But people's attitudes are informed by the way we talk, subtly, without us ever realizing it, and even though none of us who first started joking ever meant it to happen, people are being hurt and abused and raped. And when I think about how my friend would react if she saw this comment, I get a pit in my stomach.
Just so everyone knows. Just so everyone hears it. I'm not going to expect you to stop making jokes, just think about what you're saying.
***This rant has been the product of pent-up frustration, and should in fact be directed at all such comments I see, not just this one.
I did not make a joke about rape.
Yes, you did. I don't mean to attack you, and I know you didn't actually mean that anybody should do that, but that's what you said.
Unless I'm wildly misinterpreting what you said, in which case, please enlighten me, and I humbly apologize for choosing this moment to unleash my still-standing rant.
eye roll
I can imagine the conversation with her closest gay friend after option number one...
This post proves that hetero men just don't get women. Despite being a great and humorous post.
She would probably appreciate a simple hey, I'd like to see if we can take this a little further. eg. "I am thinking about you and how much fun we have together, and I think there's something more there." etc etc. End with a nice kiss if she seems amenable, and tell her to think about it and get on with what you were doing and be cool about it until she responds.
Do not act like a wobbly bowl of jelly either, she'll tell all her gay friends and girlfriends about that too.
[EDIT] ps: If she seems very responsive go as far as she'll let ya! w00t
Are you kidding? Speaking as a woman, do you know how much more attractive a dude with actual balls making a move on you is as opposed to some eternal wankfest about 'growing feelings'?
I've had this discussion in my life a number of times. Both with women who are talking about it after the event, and those who theorize about it.
Unless she's already interested, having a good male friend "scoop" you up and begin making out with you and taking your clothes off is a serious violation of trust.
Until you, I have yet to meet a woman who, unless she already has a thing for her friend, wants her "safe male friend" to all the sudden turn into a pawing ass.
loewe are you referring to when the girl is already attracted to the guy or do find it attractive for any guy to come out of nowhere and do this?
He is the close gay friend. It's been well over a year and if this girl wanted to be more than just friends she would have already dropped a sign by now. The fact that they just hang out as 'friends' means that's all she thinks of him. Otherwise it would be your usual "We hook up now and then" or "When we are drunk at parties stuff happens but..." stuff.
He has a good friendship it seems and I don't think he should ruin a good thing. Leave it what it is.
And yours proves that women rarely know what they actually want. Yes, women love to talk about feelings...with their friends. He's got the bases covered on being her friend. I'm sure they talk about their feelings all the damned time. Now he wants to break out of the friend box, which is like breaking out of Alcatraz, including the swim through icy waters. Talking to the guards at the gate about how you'd really rather be on the other side isn't going to get you where you want to go.
Of course, the best way to get out of the friend box is to never get into it.
Problem is, the more you care, the more like a wobbly bowl of jelly you might come off. A woman sometimes finds this touching however, as I understand it. Maybe not in a "FUCK ME NOW!" sense but in a "oh man he likes me that much? wow" sense.
You make the whole situation seem like the beginning of a beautiful business arrangement. Where's the passion in that?
I didn't say use your boring 3 hour meeting voice.
Women like to talk about things, especially relationships. It's not that there can't be passion, but this guy is trying to go from friend to girlfriend, which is a touchy situation if you don't want to loose the existing friendship.
Going from friend to tongue down your throat and 1st base in one fell "scoop", is ill advised in this situation. It possibly could work if she's secretly feeling the same way, or he could get his balls knocked in and loose any potential for continued friendship.
However, he should inside be chanting over and over MAN RAPTOR RAWR.
Bollocks. A girl I know says once a boy has his hands in her pants then it's game over for her, she is then the boys.
I took that advice and discovered it also works for nipples.
Women are not the delicate precious flowers men seem to think they are.
Go to the grocery store and buy a package of dried dates. Casually carry them with you so that the label is not visible, or have the bag on or about your person when you are ready to ask her out, but don't let her see what it is. If she sees that you have a bag of dried dates, this won't work.
Then, do it: "Hey, so, how about a date?"
Then see what she says. If it's at all negative or rejectory, then casually open the bag (making sure she sees that it contains dates), pop a dried date into your mouth, shrug, and say, "Fine. More for me."
If she says yes, it's up to you whether you want to complete the joke, but having executed this a time or two, I suggest keeping the dried dates out of the picture if she says yes.
That's not bad. Consider it stolen. ;)
That's crazy enough to work!
It has worked for me twice -- once in the negative, once in the affirmative. It's a win-win situation if executed properly. If she says no, then you whip out the dates, she laughs at the pun and you get to be "funny" and can hopefully capitalize on your friendship with her to get her recommendation to one of her hot friends. Nothing will get you laid like a recommendation from a woman friend.
If she says yes, you look like a motherfucking MAN-RAPTOR, and she'll never know that you only had balls because you had a humorous contingency plan.
Cheeky bastard.
Even if she said yes, I don't think I'd be able to resist the urge of taking out one of the dates and saying, "Okay, here you go!"
...I guess I'm just that kind of person.
That's correct.
No.
That suggests to me that you're not very taken with this girl. A man once said to me...a man who I was friends with...he said, "I can't be only a friend to you anymore." He went on to say that he felt too strongly about me, and he could only be with me in a relationship or nothing.
That rung true to me. I understood it. When he told me this, he was almost crying, which was interesting, as this was a pretty tough guy. Anyway, I'm still with him. He's my husband.
I couldn't disagree more. A guy once gave me that same ultimatum, and I chose to go the opposite direction. I was shocked by his arrogance that made me feel like I had done something wrong because he developed feelings for me.
Maybe it worked for monica-reyes because she had feelings for the guy all along and didn't realize it. But from somebody who didn't reciprocate, it destroyed a friendship, and made social gatherings with mutual friends VERY awkward until he found somebody he liked more than me.
Of course it would be wrong to blame you for his feelings, but blame is not the point. For whatever reason, he developed feelings for you. Those feelings were incompatible with a friendship. As awkward and uncomfortable as the immediate aftermath was, sticking with the status quo would have been worse. And in the end, it sounds like things worked out.
I don't understand this part of your comment. Arrogance doesn't really come into play. Maybe he didn't make you feel you had done something wrong. Maybe you had your own feelings for whatever reason.
Yes, I don't doubt that a friendship could be ended by something like this. But, that's life. To attain great things like relationships, risks must be taken. A lot of things in life are awkward. Learn to live with that.
It's pretty simple.
He's ugly and she was flabbergasted he would even think of such a thing
That's obviously a risk he was willing to take. Thus the whole "relationship or nothing" thing. It sucks that he didn't think about what you would've wanted.
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I can see why you'd think that based on what I wrote. I'm actually more or less infatuated with her, which is the reason I broke up with my girlfriend 6 months ago and haven't so much as thought about being with another girl since then. And that's saying a lot coming from the guy who used to go out with new girls almost as often as I changed my pants.
I can't really pull the all or nothing thing with her, though, because as I elaborated in another post we're forced to see each other for several hours a week whether we like it or not, and I'd rather not make those several hours painfully awkward for the both of us.
Dude, CHANGE YOUR PANTS MORE OFTEN. Maybe the smell was why your girlfriends kept leaving you.
While that's human and understandable, it suggests to me (presuming you are "infatuated with her" as you say) that you are, no offense, cowardly. Infatuation is a strong word, and, if you mean it, it should inspire strong action (which means disregarding the prospect of "painfully awkward" consequences.)
What the fuck? You just called this dude cowardly because he's being considerate of this girl's feelings (a girl he really cares about) as well as any mutual friends?
Your husband was super intense and didn't mind if his actions ended your relationship. Great, glad that worked out for you. Not everyone's experience has to be the same, though.
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If you're infatuated with her and have been pining over her all this time, then the reality of being with her is going to let you down after a few weeks, if not sooner. You'll have some sex, get some pizza, and eventually start to see that she's not all you've built her up to be.
Then since you work together, things will not work out, it will be awkward and going to work will suck.
Of course, you are irrational or you'd know all this already, so go for it, because you're going to screw this up either way so you might as well screw it up in the way that you actually get the girl for a while.
dude, just on that last fact alone.. DON'T DO IT!
Hey, it's okay if he's not painfully in love with her. He can just be interested romantically but wants to make it clear the friendship is important to him regardless.
Yes, I understand your point, but if you don't have that type of feeling (I wouldn't characterize it as painful), then what's the point? Maybe they should just remain friends.
That seems like a mature approach, but, in my experience, matters of the heart aren't so rational.
That's true in principle, but it's really just something that guys say. A gamble. In actual truth, he'd have been crushed like you wouldn't believe and wished he still had the friendship if it all went wrong, regardless of how painful it is/was.
Keeping in mind this is obviously only for women that men feel as strongly about as your husband did with you.
Of course there's a grieving process, like with the end of any relationship, but eventually he'll get over it. If he sticks around and tries to be your friend, he'll be stuck half-way grieving indefinitely. Better to dress the wound and bear the pain than to let it fester.
Sounds like a pity marriage. How long are you going to keep this farce up just so that you don't hurt his feelings?
Edit: It was a joke people. You all need to get out more.
pity marriage? lol... there's no pity involved
Step 1: Change your username to something that's not a Pokemon.
Tell her you shaved your balls, gauge her reaction, proceed accordingly.
Make sure they are as smooth as eggs.
that's actually great advice.
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I love opportunities to quote myself:
Well the best advice I was given was:
I've always cherished my grandmother's advice. It seemed like an odd thing to say to me on my 7th birthday, but hey, when you're right you're right.
!
I just have to know what you mean by that...please?
Be prepared to lose her as a friend. Even if you both geuinely want to remain friends, asking her out will put a strain on things. I've asked out a couple lady friends. One stopped hanging out with me for about a year until she realized that I was interested in girls that weren't her. The other was cordial with me but we drifted and have been reduced to LJ friends. While I miss her greatly, at least I can't regret not asking her.
Lesbian Janitor?
Leftist Jumper?
Loser's Juniper?
Late July?
Last Justice?
Living Jungle?
I was aiming for Live Journal. I guess the last one is closest.
I liked Lesbian Janitor the best...
Blegh, I hate this response. But mostly because I know it's right.
I'll elaborate a bit on my situation: me and her both do volunteer work for the running of our school's swimming/diving/water polo events. This basically entails us two sitting next to each other for several hours at a time, once or twice per week. Neither of us can get out of this obligation at this point, so whether we want to or not we're going to be in eachother's presence a lot for the next few months.
Next time you're both in your bathing suits, just point down and say, "I was just thinking about you!"
if at all possible, wait until you are done being forced to be around her. think of the worst case scenario. yeah. suckie, right?
Much too risky, she could start up with someone else by then, it has to be now and it has to be like pulling off a bandage, the faster the better. Good luck man, been there, won some lost some but not for lack of trying.
If you really think that she might like you too, then go for it. If your flirty and she's flirty back then she might be. Although, girls are hard to gauge on the flirtatiousness metric alone, some girls flirt with everybody.
I asked a girl I work with out to a party one of my friends was throwing. When I drove her home at the end everybody assumed we jumped each other the second we got into the parking lot because of the way things had looked. Interestingly enough, her boyfriend from out of town called as I we were pulling up to her place. Needless to say I didn't try to invite myself in. We still playfully flirt a lot at work and people still tell me I should ask her out, but I'm pretty sure she just feels comfortable flirting with me. Anyways, I've hung out with her a few times since at parties she's thrown and she has hot friends so it's not all bad.
Moral of the story: Girls are fucking confusing, but don't even try if you can't sense some mutual attraction.
The swimming events definitely make this a big risk!
First of all, definitely do not ask her out via facebook.
Second of all, if she actually is our friend, why not just tell her you're going to go see "whatever" movie this weekend and wanted to know if she wanted to go with you.
She might say no! She might say yes! That's life!
What you need to do is really draw the line. Don't ask her if she wants to go out sometime, don't as if she wants to check out a movie, etc. Make your intentions clear: "Would you like to go on a date with me?"
Online message is definitely not acceptable. Saying "its ok if you say no we can still be friends" to cover your ass is also quite unacceptable. If you feel like that explanation is necessary, begin with something like "we have known each other for a long time now but I can't help the fact that I think our relationship has grown beyond a friendship..." then ask her to whatever you are asking her to.
I have gone through this a few times, so further advice would be: make sure you do it at the right time. Try taking her out somewhere as just friends, but treat it as a date: alone, offer to pay, etc. Make it take a while (go to an amusement park!) and make it fun (again, amusement park!), then ask her out at the end of the day, when you drop her off at home or whatever.
Totally agree with this part. Since they apparently hang out anyway, clearly making it a date is definitely the way to go.
Actually, making your intentions blindingly clear for any person your interested in seems like a good idea to me.
"Hello. I would like to eat dinner with you. This would be a date. Yes or no. Your response?"
Well, maybe not that stilted ;-)
I met my current girlfriend, and previous girlfriend, on Facebook. Although it's unconventional, it can be alright if you're both textroverted.
True. There are exceptions to everything, of course. But I think if you have known someone over a year and see them regularly, it is not the way to do something that important.
I agree.
i like this advice the best.
"would you like to go on a date with me?"
perfect.
Man up and call her.
Don't put in "it's ok if you reject me, we'll be ok" bullshit. Just ask her what you want, and let her answer. No disclaimers, no shame.
You like her, that's it. If she feels the same way --- AWESOME --- if not, then you'll move on.
Even calling her keeps it all a step removed. If you already hang out and it seems like a comfortable enough thing where it would work out you should ask in person. It's not that you have to ask in person, just what I would do. I like to see the reaction a girl has to what I'm asking too. It helps with my confidence on the actual date to know how interested she was going in.
maybe this comic will help you..
How old are you? Starting a romantic relationship in your late teens is very different from starting a romantic relationship in your late 20's or 30's.
For me it's probably the same. I'm approaching my late 20s, and my experience level is less than most people in their late teens.
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Whip your dick out and see what she does.
With our powers combined, you will get laid.
You are our Everest.
I recently asked for help with getting started with a lady, and we are very happy together, and our first kiss was a couple hours long.
a beowulf cluster of nerds can think their way through any problem!
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Ask her in person. Not over the phone, not over the Internet. Look her straight in the eye and say "Would you like to go on a date with me?"
Then shut up. Don't say anything else. Don't fidget. Don't look at your shoes. Look her straight in the eye and wait for a reply.
Either way she answers your relationship as friends is over. You'll either be fucking or not. But at least you'll know what the deal is.
I like this advice to add on to it if she says something like
reply with something like
Because it won't. You'll continue to lust for her while she parades what seems like an endless supply of retard boyfriends in front of you until you resent her, she'll know you have feeling for her and she'll at first feel guilty for bringing the boyfriends around you, but then eventually resent you for making her feel guilty. You'll get in an argument over something seemingly trivial that blows up out of proportion and your friendship will effectively be over, however, now if you have mutual friends they will have to choose who keeps who.
Ending the friendship clean and on mostly good terms will allow you to "reboot" the friend zone. You stay away from her for a few months and maybe she misses you, comes to realise your worth to her. Or at the very least it gives you a mostly clean slate except she's not initially hostile/cautious towards you. You'll also get points for having some balls and sticking to your principles. If you accept being just friends, you're a pussy and a friend is all you'll ever be.
good luck
“I've asked girls out before but they've all been near-complete strangers so even if they slapped me in the face or straight up said no”
That’s because you came right out and revealed your endgame before you demonstrated any value. Even ugly chicks get hit on regularly every night so their automatic reaction is “NO!” You have to show VALUE first – who are you and why should she care. Approach – convey value (a few jokes, some stories) – escalate the touching, and THEN close.
I recommend taking an indirect approach on this one. Do NOT directly ask her out on a date. That is asking for trouble, demonstrates chumpness, and may raise unnecessary pressure in her mind. Instead give her a call saying that you are heading out for coffee/drinks somewhere and wanted to know if she was interested in coming along. No big deal – no commitment, you’re just giving her the opportunity to hang out with you – no strings attached.
You have to avoid appearing like you are directly coming out and asking her on a date. You’re in a difficult spot because she may already see you as a friend, and as such, views you in completely non-sexual way. You’ll have to differentiate yourself from other male friends and that means KINO (light touch). Best friends don't touch intimately. When you see her give her a hug but then rub her arm. Touch her hand. When you get up to go to the bathroom rest your hand on her shoulder as you say “I’ll be right back.” NOT like a pervert or anything, but you need to differentiate yourself from her other male friends. If she reacts negatively to the kino bail (and stop touching) – she’s not worth the trouble or just isn't into you in that way. If she doesn’t seem creeped out then keep going! Rest your hand lightly on her knee when she’s talking to you (it demonstrates that you are interested in what she has to say and are creating a connection). Search the net for some cheesy palm reading gimmick and get her to put her hands in yours (this demonstrates that it is okay to touch you) – then read her palm and joke that her reading indicates that she’s crazy. If you can leave with her in your arms you won’t need to worry about asking her out on a date – she will be yours. Maybe go for a kiss close.
The other thing: DON’T PAY FOR HER! I know we’ve been trained that it is the nice thing to do but that is bullshit that desperate “friends” pull. Once you two start dating you can pay for a drink, but at this point you need to make it clear that you are not a chump like other guys and won’t put up with that kind of B.S. She’s not a hooker – you’re not paying for sex.
Good luck man! Write up a field report and tell us how it goes. Even if things go bad you can learn from this.
Edit: okay, here come the down votes. What exactly does reddit find wrong with my comments this time? They don't like touching girls? Well get used to it guys - you have to touch women at some point in your life! They think he should pay for everything? They think he should come right out and tell her how much he loves her and that he'll always be there for her even if it's just as a friend?
sigh...
?
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the PUA jargon probably pisses them off
You're awesome! So many guys would never even try, simply bc they are afraid. (They say it's bc they don't want to risk the friendship, but it really boils down to fear.) But the real reason i say you're awesome is this: no matter what happens with this girl, the fact that you are willing to go for it with someone you know and respect is the surest sign that you will, eventually, find someone to share your life with.
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You sound like a sweet enough guy...with the words you chose for the title and the way you described you current platonic relationship with her. So here's some advice from a guy that went through a similar situation...
Don't let her friends know so that it will get to her through the grapevine. Don't leave notes (who still does that?) or FB messages. Don't make it open-ended. Don't say "it's ok if you say no...". That shows weakness and uncertainty about what you want.
When you see her today, just do it. You don't have to stroke her ego too much or sugar up your message. Something like, "Hey ______, I know we see each alot and hang out, but I want to know if you'd like to go out to dinner with me?"
Remember, you know what you want and you know that you aren't happy just being her friend. You don't have anything to lose. It's funny how we avoid going after what we want because taking that first step makes us uncomfortable and nervous. So just let me tell you....it'll be alright. Do it before some else does!
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Have you read the "ferocious man-raptor" thread?
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Good luck! :)
A lot of people here are going to speculate and give you advice on things they've never experienced. Just ask her out, as simple as that. Don't make it more complex than it needs to be. Don't do any planning (on the asking part). Don't think hard about it. Just think about something you want to do with her and ask if she'd like to go, just you and her. You don't need to spell out that it's a date either. She will get it when you say it's just for you and her.
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where are the results? where's update #2?
No! You dumb shit! Don't use the line "I am a ferocious man raptor, and I wanted to know if you want to see a movie later tonight"
That will just make you sound retarded in front of her (women will think it's retarded, men will think it's awesome), and you don't make it clear you just want her to come alone.
Damn, my reply is probably too late. Give us an update dude!
Don't. You sound like one of those friendzone boys that she is just being nice to out of friendship and not desire. You are going to put her in a bad spot by approaching her on this. If she were interested you would have a definite answer without even asking. Easy peasy.
Text her. But don't ask her out in the first message, bring up some topic and once she starts responding bring it up somehow. That way you avoid sending a "ur sexy, let's date" message and wondering why she's not responding. If she doesn't respond after you've already been talking, at least you'll know for sure you're fucked and can't make excuses for why she may not be responding.
If she knew you for a year and has not yet asked you if you have a girlfriend or why you have not asked her out...
quit. give up. don't make a fool of yourself.
i just dont get reddit lately. whats up guys? this positive only, fucking passive aggressive bullshit is PISSING ME OFF.
EDIT: why the downvotes for OYZHM?
expound on your theory...
when anyone has anything to say that is cynical, negative, and the like it seems to be getting downmodded recently. i come to reddit for the cynical and dark humor. if i wanted blase sugary coated crap, id talk to my fucking coworkers. i feel like the freedom to rant (in a negative way if one feels to deem it necessary (completely justified here)), and make a point while discussing something with a dark lean should be respected here.
why does this make me so mad? i dont know. i just dont want reddit going all nicey-nice.
I don't get how it's passive aggressive to downvote someone. If we were all ignoring his comments, and talking about OYZHM behind their back, THAT would be passive aggressive.
actually, downvoting on Reddit is pretty much the definition of passive aggressive behavior i.e. "passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance".
You don't... if she was interested it would've happened already. Ladder Theory.