Source
r/sysadmin•
qnull

Timesheets/time tracking - does it ever not suck?

Career / Job Related

Curious to hear the opinions of this sub on timesheeting/time tracking.

It’s a necessary evil, but the process at my current employer involves filling out a spreadsheet every week with a seperate spreadsheet for oncall rotations then uploading it into SAP.

Surely there must be a better way.

Edit: lots of great comments and experiences in this thread.

While I really would like to improve our systems, I should have stated that I am a salaried employee on an internal IT team and I work for a large national company, and all my time is billed to capital projects.

Our current SAP CATS spreadsheet system caters for a lot of the “businesses within a business” that we have and all the different requirements those of “businesses”.

Maybe one day I will find the time and the money to fix this.

Posted Nov 15, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC · edited

229189
Duckbutter_cream•

Internal IT is great as we don't track time. Just keep everything running and you get paid the same every two weeks.

112
jaydubgee•

I'm internal IT and expected to track time against internal projects.

44
burnteCrisis Manager•

That's usually a sign of bad management, IMO. I've never had people track time. I either see progress, or I don't. I either see people goofing off and not being productive, or I don't. IMO a manager should be able to tell work is being done without micromanaging. If you can't trust someone to do their job, they shouldn't have it. You manage them up or you let them go.

I want reports on progress, not punchcards. Telling me you spent 4 hours doesn't tell me what you DID. Punchcard managing doesn't reward hard work, it encourages the required minimum.

Edit: I said USUALLY. yes, there are cases where it's useful, but it should not be the primary metric. Output is the primary metric.

51
CasualAdultery•

That's usually a sign of bad management,

Or fed gov contract reporting requirements. I'm required to report time because the servers I work on are used for gov projects.

26
phantom_eight•

fed gov

Bad management. Government is the poster child of bureaucracy and fucking shit up.

11
jaydubgee•

I'm sure that makes sense in a smaller shop, but at my Fortune <50 company, it's less about my time and more about project OPEX and staffing data.

17
quantum_foam_fingerJack of All Trades•

Yeah, we try to operate as informally as we can on a day-to-day basis but larger orgs come with a certain amount of complexity and paperwork/legal expectations. Initiatives flow up and down the command chain and it can be very nice to point to hard data when asked for an accounting of your work. It also helps you build a reputation for competence and responsiveness.

I track: ticket number, application/tool, category of work, time (15 minute increments), and a brief description.

It's not used by the team for daily operations, but I've drawn on it for various things:

How much time am I spending on a new application vs time spent on the 2 applications it replaced?

Senior admin says: "upper management wants a detailed justification of how we use our time, with estimated costs & business value."

Analyze top 10 tickets for the past quarter in terms of time spent -- how can we avoid these time sucks in the future?

Contract manager says: "we're going to start reporting our top contributions quarterly to the client, starting with the current almost-completed quarter"

Based on these experiences, I'd track all this stuff for my own use (and for defensive purposes when needed) even if I hadn't been asked to set it up.

5
haganbmj•

The problem I'm having at my (internal) work is that we spend far more time on maintenance than is budgeted and I'm having a hard time getting that information relayed back up the management chain because there's no time tracking to quantify it.

I've spoken with my direct manager about it with my intention simply being to increase visibility into the amount of work preventing us from making meaningful forward progress - but I think they struggle without the data to back it up. All I'd like is for it to be known so that they can properly rebalance the budget to either mitigate then correct the issue or accept it knowing that the output ratio is going to be low.

Really don't know how accomplish this without them tracking. We do track stories, but even when I show an 80/20 breakdown of toil to feature it's seemingly not sufficient to sound alarms.

4
OdddutchguyWindows Admin•

That's usually a sign of bad management, IMO.

For me it's a sign of bad management if they don't track time.

Being in an organisation where the IT director abandoned timesheets decades ago, I clearly see that IT is now unable to proof that they are understaffed.

The business is complaining about IT unable to deliver, and a lot of shadow-IT due to that. As the IT director is unable to show that everyone in IT is working more hours than they are hired for, it's impossible to get more IT staff.

I track my own time in Clockify as a CYA, as I wouldn't be surprised if the ball will drop somewhere in the next year and I want to be able to show management my (own) metrics.

1
burnteCrisis Manager•

Being in an organisation where the IT director abandoned timesheets decades ago, I clearly see that IT is now unable to proof that they are understaffed.

I can prove that with how long things take and the backlog of to-dos. If I need additional proof beyond that, I can ask for time tracking.

1
skilliard7•

Where I'm at it's more about giving our manager the data he needs to show upper management where his resources are going and justifying staffing levels and things like that.

1
xpxp2002•

Same at my place. Biggest waste.

But when we log 20 extra hours of night/weekend/holiday on-call, it goes in a general break-fix bucket that no one ever questions.

I just wish for once management would ask us why every week someone’s logging 60+ hours, and maybe we should be evaluating those events to try to reduce the need to engage on-call for predictable work that could’ve been handled during normal hours.

3
digitaltransmutationThis flair is only meant for the person to whom it was addressed•

Yeah, I used to have to do that and there was no 'admin' bucket. 100% of my time had to be billed to a project and and project managers would constantly bitch about how much time people were billing to their projects. Usually lead to people adding so many projects to their docket that over half their effective time would be tied up in status meetings.

2
SilentSamurai•

I really don't need to hear this as I procrastinate on filling out my timesheet for last week...

9
zebediah49•

I love how that interacts with the fiction of "vacation hours". Like, "yes, I will spend '16 hours' of vacation time to take Thursday and Friday off, despite the fact that I would be hypothetically working between 6 and 10 hours on those days".

Yes, I realize that it's really "days" and the software handles that by doing the division and allocating you 6.154 hours on your paycheck... but it's still an amusing extrapolation to apply to a "meh keep it working" job type.

5
wdomon•

We switched to unlimited vacation for higher level IT. While some companies use that as a way to discourage vacation use, my company has been very flexible with it (everyone on my team has taken multiple weeks off this year so far) and just considers it a win to no longer have to spend any time tracking it for salaried IT employees. Takes the “I took Thursday off but something broke Thursday night and I still had to work” out of the equation as well.

12
lpmusix•

Except the reason they stopped doing accrual is to avoid paying it out when you leave (if the state you're in mandates that). Companies love to say it's to help the employee, bullshit, it's solely to help themselves. A few unicorn companies exist where you can get more time off out of the deal, but it's unlikely.

11
wdomon•

The state we’re in does not mandate that. Not everything is a trick. Some things can be win-win.

2
Duckbutter_cream•

Same with my place, it's been pretty good. Just two weeks notice you want off and it's normally cool. Just need to not go pto when a bunch others are off.

5
plazingJack of All Trades•

Yeah, just make sure issues/tickets are updated and give some update on what is everyone working on during team meeting. Int/Ext IT here

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
ds1776•

my dream job

1
but_tholeBarely an Admin•

damn man, I wish I was you right now haha.

1
jeffrey_f•

Sounds like you/your company would benefit from automating this at some point or a web interface to do this, even the upload. ADP has a punch in/out web interface that can probably serve this purpose.

81
amw3000•

Most companies do this for time tracking and reporting purposes, not for payroll.

30
jeffrey_f•

small companies will though

9
Baller_Harry_Haller•

I know of several companies (from small to multi-National) that are using ADT fir time tracking and payroll. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

5
7layerDipswitch•

If employees are union or contractoes, then there will usually be time reporting used for payroll. This is due to the fact that union representation can get employees OT depending on their schedule and contracting companies bill their customers based on the amount of hours the contracted employees work.

5
FredG713•

Why do people use ADP?

15
jeffrey_f•

Usually, because ADP also processes payroll. When you use their punchin/punchout service, it only requires an approval from someone in your company to set in motion the processing of payroll checks, direct deposit and delivery of archive copies of paystubs to employees on their website. It takes a huge load off of HR and IT to develop and administer a similar system.

ADP has the infrastructure in place to do it all for a fee. Imagine having 150K employees who want to be paid on time. It is just way easier, faster and cheaper to have it done for you than to invest in specialized hardware, software/custom programs and be guarantied that taxes and other withholdings are done properly.

27
effse7enif/then wrangler•

Counterpoint: Ultipro exists.

3
craa141•

Ultipro

Counter, counter point ADP and a whole host of other payroll solutions exist. Why is Ultipro so much better?

Serious question actually.

12
oldspiceland•

Having used both types of cancerous clock systems, at least ADP answered my phone calls when it broke, unlike Ultimate.

Both are hot garbage and given the fact that there’s not enough complexity in the software to justify the lack of competition...both are probably doing a pretty good job of conveniently blocking out potential newcomers.

3
jeffrey_f•

And then there's that

1
helgzysac•

Counter-counterpoint: Paycom exists

1
orwiad10•

Workday is still trash if you have 8 time codes.

1
fourpuns•

I’ve been on both sides. Right now I literally just put in hours general for everything, OT, and vacation, etc. doesn’t need to be assigned to a project or anything.

In my MSP life I had to track mileage, drive time, time with each customer to 15 minutes, what I did at each visit, and time in office. If I. Didn’t have 90% accounted for they would ask where I was for 30 minutes or whatever. It was insane. They also would get annoyed if I didn’t manage ~25 billable hours a week. I was fortunate I had a number of good clients who just had me on scheduled 4-6h shifts and that I was by far our most competent tech... but some people were give like zero leeway and it was hard for them to get billable hours when doing a bunch of 1h onsite calls, and like 15 minute support tickets.

So yea... I feel I have it very good now but did have it pretty bad.

58
tjswish•

25 billable hours? Last MSP I worked for wanted 32 in my contract and then tried to change it to 35 before I finally quit...

And if I spent 2 minutes changing a password, they'd charge the customer for 15 but it would only count as 2 on my timesheet. Thankfully I'm not there anymore and I don't have any desire to work for an MSP again...

18
Freefall79•

My current job has a billable target of 38 hours a week (out of 40). Terrible.

8
HopefulCampaign3•

Mine wants 40+ out of 40 and we don’t even have T&M clients.

1
BanditKing•

My old MSP called that utilization.

time billed/time worked. Goal was 78% I think. I was usually in the 90s since I could juggle jobs simultaneously. Real cutthroat with zero appreciation. Glad I moved on.

5
derickkcired•

Man been there done that. The msp I was at for a few years expected 35 billable hours per week. And I was a lead, and I was expected to be an escalation point to the lower techs.

I had the same arguments about unbalanced reporting and profit. So they'd bill a client 10 hours for a firewall install, I'd bill 6, but I'd have 3 into it. It's like win win win but they bitched up and down about knowing it didnt take me 6 hrs. Fuck that noise.

3
apathetic_lemur•

you had a contract working at an msp? What was the upside for you?

2
tjswish•

My agreement to work there. Not really a contract, just the deal you sign when you accept the job which had my KPIs in it.

They also underpaid me for my experience etc. But I needed a job to pay bills...

3
technicalpumpkinheadSysadmin•

The last MSP that I was with wanted 37 hours and would do the same. 2 Minutes password reset? They full bill the customer but it would only show 2 minutes on my timesheet. I do not miss the MSP world at all.

1
RipCityTilIDieWindows Admin•

I can't imagine dealing with that. I'm lucky/unlucky? that I work for a flat-fee MSP to where unlimited support is a thing, and it takes as long as it does sometimes

4
rzsh0k•

I've literally had the exact same experience at an MSP regarding billables, tracking time with customers and questioning time etc..

3
fourpuns•

Yea, it’s not a huge deal it’s just a pain in the ass. My work used to make me very carefully track time to projects vs operations but recently they decided to stop for whatever reason. Makes my life easy. Unless it put over 160 hours into a project I don’t have to bother :)

4
Local_admin_user•

Yeah these days I just have to account for hours worked, no detail on what I do with those hours. Previously I had to split it into 30mins sections with contract numbers for each job I was working on and reason if it was overtime. e.g. approved by J.Smith rushed job etc.

​

I don't mind filling in an excel spreadsheet, takes me <2mins a day at the moment.

1
Jarden666999•

if you'd filled in your tickets correctly, this wouldn't be an issue

-14
fourpuns•

A day would look like this.

8:00-8:15 reviewed day. 15 minutes in office. Not billable.

8:15-8:30 Drove to site X. 9km. Not billable.

8:30-9:00 work on INC001. Laptop requires replacement fan. Submitted hardware request for part XYZ under warranty. 30 minutes billable.

9:00-9:15 Drove back to office 9km not billable.

9:15-10:00. No tickets scheduled. Time in office. Worked on building image for client X.

10:00-10:15. Received support call INc1004 Unable to login domain trust. Was able to resolve remotely. 30 minutes billable.

10:15-11:00 completed work on image for client X.

Etc.

You’re right that our ticketing system also did the billing. It was a lot of time tracking which was annoying :). What you put in was definitely quite audited.

17
TheDevilsAutocorrect•

I am shocked drive time was not billable.

13
listur65•

I thought the same, but maybe there is a set trip charge that gets added to the bill rather than billing the time?

3
Jarden666999•

I'm an owner, I don't have a set thing on billable hours, I think that's stupid. How can you require a specific amount of billable hours?

11
AnonymooseRedditorJack of All Trades•

We have a productivity goal, 65% towards billable or project work. It’s not uncommon in consulting/ MSP life

6
Llew19•

Lol when I worked as a paralegal, this was exactly how our time keeping looked.

Except they were 6 minute units!

2
benst04•

MSP engineer here, also heavily use Connectwise. Four years in, time keeping doesn't get any better 🙃 We are also required to keep our timesheets up to date as much as possible (or at least have total hours in for the day recorded by midnight of that day.) Things I have learned along the way:

  1. Getting behind on time sheets really sucks, your life will be way better if you keep up on it, no matter how busy you are.
  2. If you respond to and complete a 15 minute ticket/time entry, write the time in and close it right away. Those are much easier to forget than 3 hour blocks of project time or billable meetings.
  3. Highly recommend checking out a Windows app called ManicTime. Literal lifesaver in the MSP world. It runs in the background and takes screen shots of your active apps while you work. By default every 30 seconds, I have mine set to every 5. If you forgot what you did that day, you can scroll through your day and see what you did.
24
brekkfu•

That screenshot thing is an awful idea, how are you handling potential sensitive info screenshotted while in users system.

16
TotallyInOverMyHead•

In my book, they just outed them-self as an MSP not to hire if you are a potential client. Security seems like an afterthought if the topic even comes up

(mind you HE/SHE/* is talking about screenshotting their work machine every 5 seconds. This will include EVERY single Page /APP/RAT/Jumphost they open, including documentation, password management software, and so on).

we would definitely find this in our audit and we would definitely terminate them as contractor/employee. side-note: I don't operate in a "at-will" jurisdiction. dismissing an employee means jumping through tons of hoops. 5-second automatic screenshots of the work machine would be a no-brainer given the contracts we provide to employees, and the laws involved and quite frankly the professionalism we expect from an IT-Employee.

12
benst04•

This is standard software that we all use for assistance with time tracking, I suppose it would be good to run something like this past your manager before you start using it. We have already vetted it and there is full knowledge of it's use.

As for your other comments, all of our documentation, remote access, passwords, etc are monitored and audited anyways in those respective systems. All the screen shots taken are stored locally on my computer on a bitlocker encrypted drive.

3
PrivateHawk124Security Analyst :doge:•

Yeah, if I found out that on any of the systems. First thing I’d do is lock this dude/gal out and then arrange for a meeting with the manager.

2†
helgzysac•

What about something that just tracks foreground apps and their title bars on the PC, and the non-idle time of the PC? So no screenshots are kept, and you still get a sense of what you were doing through the day, with a LOT less of a risk of a risky screen capture getting loose. (i.e. I could see that I had a ScreenConnect session open to ABCCORP-DC-3421, but not what I was actually doing. I should be able to go through and attribute that time on my own to a ticket/project without needing to SEE what I was doing.)

I don't have any thing like this in use at this time, but was wondering what your thoughts were...?

1
benst04•

You can also configure it that way, in fact the screen shot portion is totally optional. You can also just track active apps and get a report for that. Problem for me there is that basically everything is browser based so getting a report that I spent 90% of the day in Chrome is basically useless. Would definitely be more useful with segmented applications though.

3
TotallyInOverMyHead•

My thoughts?

a) stay compliant with your Standards and Practices; the laws that govern your jurisdiction and the contract you/your org has signed.

b) if you REALLY need to keep track of the apps you work on, then start a list (notepad, mental, handwritten). it is not like you need to know that you worked in notepad++ for 35 seconds vs 5/10/15 minutes.

​

But then again, i'd question the validity of actually needing to know the apps you had open to know what projects you work on. You should have a ticket for the job your working on --> Ticket Number. Then just get into the habit of noting start/finish times.

Personally ? We pay our employees for 36 hours a week, regardless of there actually being 36 hours billed. <=10 hours a month overtime is a no-brainer, above that you'd need manager-sign-off. You work on the clients tickets. You start your ticket, you note the time (app based), you finish your ticket you note the time (app based). You don't work on multiple tickets at a time. (you can use idle time for documentation / coffee-run). We bill the client in 15-minutes increments. We don't track your "billable hours" vs "unproductive hours". But then again, We do not operate in a "at-will" jurisdiction.

-1
digitaltransmutationThis flair is only meant for the person to whom it was addressed•

I use the free version of manictime and it only remembers the title of the active window, which is usually enough information except for connectwise. The CW designers I am sure have a really good reason for making 'my list' be the title of every tab instead of the actual ticket name.

2
[deleted]•

I don't want screenshots of my cat videos and reddit.

10
YourWeatherman•

ConnectWise was the best system I ever used. The only problem I had with it was it being extremely slow. I last used it in 2014. Is it faster now?

2
benst04•

Ha! No. Not one bit. They did move to a web interface instead of the thick client, but it looks identical and doesn't work any better.

2
yuhche•

I have used the thick client for the past ~2.5 years and prefer it over the web app as it’s easier to find where the client is versus a tab in a browser.

And yeah it’s slow, sometimes painfully slow, though I don’t mind the time tracking side of it apart from it being in hundred instead of 60.

2
Kaj_Gavriel•

I feel like the odd one out for this. Coming from a frontline finance background where we are required, by law, to keep a record of advise given, the shift to timesheeting was easier.

It's great that connectwise supports html as I just snip and paste troubleshooting done which kinda doubles as a guide if I forget what I did if I had to revisit it.

Edit: No personal or sensitive info though. Just general stuff.

2
mediumrare_chicken•

I usually pride myself on being an honest person but, I lie every week on every time sheet. I don’t have time to keep track of the truth all week.

23
jaredearle•

Timesheets suck, but they’re still better than every other solution.

15
DiatomicJungle•

Nope. Always sucks. Previous company required it. This company does capitalization of projects so we need to account for time spent on them. It always sucks.

14
Sin2KTier 2.5•

I have worked several places where there was a code in the timesheets for time spent working on timesheets...

11
SzeraaxIT Manager•

"admin"

7
phil-99Oracle DBA•

I have 2 timesheets to do - 1 for the company I’m doing work for; and one for the outsourced I’m working for.

sighs

neither are providing anyone with any useful data, I don’t see the point in them.

10
KateBeckinsale_PM_Me•

I don’t see the point in them

Well, they keep you away from real work for 30 minutes or so.

3
HarbingerInvisible•

From "real, actual work" as in here: https://youtu.be/zBfTrjPSShs

1
VOIPConsultant•

Consider proposing that you switch to using a time tracker app. I have to do this for billing my clients as a consultant, and it's indeed a pain, but you can make it less so with the right app. I use Toggl because they have an API that I wrote a tool to query and generate reports for. Your company may find it easier to just log in and export the data then upload it to SAP.

You could eventually automate that process as well.

8
abbarach•

I work for a consulting company, and am then contacted to the state.

We have:

*A daily time log SharePoint list that you have to complete, with time in and out.

  • A twice-a-month state timesheet that moust be printed, signed by myself and my supervisor, then sent to my consulting company for billing. Totals here must match the SharePoint list.
  • a weekly timesheet for my consulting company. This must match the state timesheet, and be completed by noon Friday but entry into SAP.
  • Now that we're WFH we have to complete a daily task list Excel sheet. This must be completed first thing in the morning with your expected tasks, then again at the end of the day with what you actually did. This must match SharePoint, and be sent both to my manager, as well as the project executive director. My subordinates have to send theirs to me, but I have no instruction what I'm supposed to do with them...

I know it's more complicated because of the contracting relationship, and requirements from the state. But it takes a lot more time and attention than I should...

7
Kaynard•

We're using Tempo for Jira, it's great

7
feint_of_heartdn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ•

Same here. I like it.

3
hechacker1•

I didn't hate this outright, but as a lowly employee, I at least had some input via my boss to get categories added that made sense for my job and overall business unit.

I just wish there was an easy mobile app and desktop app that would send data directly to Jira/Tempo. Also, email integration for assigning tickets and tasks.

I just wanted workflow for all this stuff.

Otherwise it was just my best guess at the end of the week. Once timesheets tracking became a job, I didn't give a shit to do it.

I wanted to show the C-suite people that I did way more than 40-hours to get extra help and resources.

Sadly before I quit (and others left in my OU), timesheets were the thing my group didn't give a shit about because we were too busy with real work. We got no bonuses that year. Guess one of the reasons we left and looked for other jobs?

1
poolpog•

"It’s a necessary evil"

Is it?

I can think of some business models in which time tracking makes sense. Basically any business model where hours are billed back to customers, and thus technical staff need to track their hours as "billable" or "non billable"

Or if one's pay is rated hourly.

But I can think of business models where it does not. Basically any business model where the money is tied to licensing, or users pay for usage directly in some way, or the company sells actual things or non-technical services. In those cases, who the fuck cares if Bob the sysadmin -- who is an exempt employee salaried, employee, mind you -- is working 18 hours or 73 hours, as long as the systems don't go down and Bob meets all the other metrics set for him for the quarter or the year.

Seriously, who the fuck cares?

IMO, if you are working at a place in the latter category, and your management cares that much about your *hours*, and not your *performance*, then your management is a bunch if incompetent fucks.

But that's just my opinion.

7
Veghead_901•

Couldn't agree more.

2
qnullOP•

Yeah, I agree. Thabkfully, it seems nobody cares about your hours as long as they go against something.

All of my hours go against internal project codes for CAPEX reasons. We “track” our time to justify hiring more people for our growing team, but it doesn’t work because we’re critically short of competent staff.

It’s mostly an exercise for C-level metrics than anything else.

1
TotallyInOverMyHead•

seconded.

1
RoloTimasi•

I've been lucky enough to mostly work for companies where time tracking wasn't part of the job. I've worked for 3 where they required it at some point and with varying degrees of tracking. The last one I had to do it for was a professional services company. At first, I only needed to track hours on billable projects. Time spent outside of projects had no tracking, e.g. training, pre-sales calls, etc. A larger company bought them and implemented a much more rigorous system where we had to track our entire work day. I was salary, so I considered it to be a bullshit policy. I luckily got out of there before it was fully implemented.

I hope to never work for an employer that requires that ever again. I consistently get things done and make myself available after hours to resolve problems, handle maintenance, or complete projects. Unless they're paying me OT, I don't see the point and it becomes annoying really fast. The risk increases that they'll chase the good workers away when they implement policies like that. I don't take well to micromanaging and this is just a form of that.

1
cool110110•

There's also the managers who tell you to just make it up because they don't want them but the government forces them to have them.

1
amw3000•

As a person who reviews a lot of timesheets and makes decisions based off them, they do not suck. It's REALLY nice to get almost instant approval for new hardware or more employees because I have the numbers to back it.

6
rdkls•

Yes it's great for that person because everyone else has spent the time to go through and fill them out. You have to wonder if the effort and misery of those workers, often highly skilled, is worth the convenience.

2
amw3000•

I get it - I have to fill one out too. Reviewing them is no easy task either. One mistake can make an entire department or person look really bad.

The issue is, what metrics can management use to determine if the workforce is understaffed?

C-Level execs care about headcounts, sadly they think that's the easiest way to save money. They want to know how long it takes person X to do job Y.

2
XANi_Senior Cat Herder•

Just looking at amount of outstanding tickets is enough to see that.

Knowing what things take most of team's time is valuable too of course, but that doesn't need to be reported in great accuracy to be useful

2
amw3000•

Knowing what things take most of team's time is valuable too of course, but that doesn't need to be reported in great accuracy to be useful

It does when you are asked to reduce headcount or planning for growth. These numbers need to be pretty close to perfect, management will just keep picking them apart.

2
XANi_Senior Cat Herder•

That's not actually valuable, that's just going around shit management. But yeah, necessary in some companies. Usually just leads to people fucking with the timesheets till whoever is complaining fucks off...

0
amw3000•

goodhart's law kicks in sometimes....yes. The biggest thing is to let people do their job and if they don't have enough hours at the end of the day, that's on their manager and not the employee. They need more work ;). The second you put the requirement of a full time sheet on the employee, they start screwing around.

While I completely agree its not the best, it's how most business leaders will think.

2
cxa5•

Is this the only way you could have gotten the numbers?

0
certaindoomawaits•

I pay $15/mo for my own Harvest account just to make my time tracking easier. I c&p into SAP and submit weekly, but to answer your question, no it will never not suck.

6
affordablegeek•

We use a website that has some sort of MS Project connection. We just migrated to it so I can't recall exactly what the back end is? At one point we had three separate time tracking systems. One that was nothing more than a time off tracker. Another was for tracking time on projects that was then turned into invoices to clients. And then the predecessor to this MS Project thing we just migrated to.

Bottom line? Those and others I have used over the years have sucked.

5
BlackV•

we use connectwise, our time is entered there

in theory you do it as you go

I could never ever do it weekly, I'd never remember, I'd have to do it daily

5
borborpa•

I'm super lucky, my work has never required one. knocks on wood

4
uid_zeroSr. Sysadmin•

There are a million better ways.

We use Project Insight (which blows - most likely because of how we have it setup).

I personally use Toggl Track to do the actual timer tracking, and I have a PowerShell module that interfaces with the API to manually mess with things (or add recurring things automatically, etc). My Toggl projects match the projects in Project Insight. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad. It takes me 15 minutes per week to hammer through putting entries into PI.

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that if the business needs time tracking, they should invest some time and effort into finding a non-invasive way of doing it.

Unfortunately for me, I was at an MSP previously that had a couple different methods. QuickBooks timesheets weren't bad, but then we moved to a custom hack job that was HORRIBLE. It was tedious, and took at least an hour every week to enter my time. There was no timer, it was purely an accounting thing after the fact. Project Insight has "timers," but they are awful.

4
SquirrellyDave99•

We use clarity ppm. It works and is integrated with a lot of our other project stuff.

It sucks, but it’s better than a spreadsheet I’d guess.

3