Zero Punctuation: MadWorld
escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctua...Posted Apr 15, 2009, 4:00 PM UTC
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escapistmagazine.com
I haven't touched my Wii (hur hur) for over a year, but his hatred for it seems to be bordering on the irrational. My problem with the console is that there are no good games, whereas he thinks no one should even try to make good games for it. I haven't seen anything so intrinsically bad about it that it would justify that kind of attitude.
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The controls are what is so intrinsically bad about the Wii. The motion sensing is very inaccurate and the shape and button layout of the Wiimote is so bad that any complicated actions become a clumsy mess.
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There are limitations to the controls, but in my opinion they can be managed to come up with something great. For instance, with proper polish, as far as I'm concerned shooter games are simply better with the Wii's pointer -- better than conventional controllers, better than mouse + keyboard. There's lots of potential that just isn't being realized to bring things like RTS games to the Wii, too. To me the main potential of the Wii lies in its pointer, but in a few instances the motion controls can really open things up, too. Wii Tennis and Bowling, for example.
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QFT. The motion sensing isn't particularly good (though Motion Plus might change that), essentially only usable for a) waggle = button presses, or b) basic tilt sensing (a la Monkey Ball).
However, the pointer is a godsend. For FPS games, it's better than any analog stick system to date. It can also be used to bring to consoles other game genres that have normally been the domain of PCs, such as RTS games (which just work better with a mouse/pointer).
More developers just need to take advantage of the pointer, and we'll see the Wii truly come into its own.
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waggle = button presses
This isn't actually true. But when they port a game MADE FOR BUTTONS with BUTTON PRESSING GAMEPLAY .. that's how they map that shit. So, all those ported PS2 games and all those multi-platform games are going to be waggle this way waggle that way.
It can and should be different with original Wii games. Except it requires the game developer to ehm .. stop creating button based gameplay.
But change is hard for a formula based industry. Hell, it took three years for the majority of games coming out for the dual analog sticks to not suck.
You see the same thing happening now as well. There are some genres that have at least one correct implementation. Metroid prime 3 finally showed how to actually implement a decent FPS controls. Wii sports demonstrated how to do sport games. But it doesn't help, all the other sport games go for the map-waggle-to-button-press gameplay.
I mean, give it time. Not the Wii per se. But the controls. They will figure it out .. eventually.
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FPS: keyboard/mouse or GTFO.
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Why the hell are people downmodding you?
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I was going to ask that too, I'm assuming it's because it doesn't have the golden vote getting "360" in it...
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Try moving your entire arm to aim something and then try moving a mouse. The mouse is faster, more accurate and less tiring.
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As they say, you're doin' it wrong. You can get all the range you need out of the Wii's pointer just by moving your wrist. Rest it on your leg and it's almost certainly less tiring than hauling the mouse around every time you hit the end of your workspace.
It's subjective which is better, but I prefer the remote/nunchuk to the mouse/keyboard because you're not confined to an awkward flat plane (you can lean back on the couch and control it from any position), you're not dealing with surface friction and lift-moving the mouse back into position, the motion is more lifelike (for shooters anyway), and the analog stick tops WASD any day. It's true that it's less precise, but mouse precision is needed for operating tiny icons on a high-res desktop. I don't see any need for that kind of precision in most games (and again it's more realistic, since you can't cap a guy with a pistol from half a mile away in one shot).
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Console controls are bad, get a PC.
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There are good games, they are just few and far between.
That being said, there aren't many good games on the other platforms either, unless eye candy can make up for playability (hint: if this is the case you are a shallow twat).
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if this is the case you are a shallow twat
Ooo, someone has different criteria than me, let's call them names!
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unless eye candy can make up for playability
So if a game is unplayable but looks pretty it is a "good game"?
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It takes a lot for a game to be truly "unplayable." Pretty graphics (and that can mean anything from good design to technically impressive things like AA, HDR, whatever) can definitely help improve a game's playability.
I'd rather have a well-designed game that looks good than a well-designed game that looks bad. Pretty looks will get a bad game at least a little farther than an ugly bad game.
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If a game has good story but unsightly graphics it is a "good game"?
My point is that some people prefer eyecandy over story/gameplay (or the same people, at different times). No need to bash them because their standards might be different... You're not better than them because you like thing A and they like thing B.
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Watch a movie if you value graphics.
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Play chess if you value gameplay.
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I think his point is that if you're a developer who is exclusively trying to make a great game, why wouldn't you take advantage of the many superior features the 360 or PS3 have over the Wii?
From great online support to DLC support to the ability to patch your games to much more horsepower to a better controller layout. Why wouldn't you not make games for the Wii?
Because they're cheap to produce, have an attention-grabbing gimmick, and occasionally Nintendo unloads some of their riches for an exclusive.
And all of those things are frustrating since none of them are to make a better game, but to make more money.
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Well as you mentioned cheap to produce. Thus you make more money back faster. But there's also less competition on the Wii. It's kinda like shooters on the XBOX 360. They're a dime a dozen.
The controller issue I won't bother arguing with. Because I feel that's a personal preference. Heck half the games I play on the 360 I think would be made better with the Wii's controls shrugs.
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The Wii controller argument rides completely on whether you like motion control or not.
For me, motion control quickly went from a tool for added immersion (one that outweighed the wonky control scheme of the 'mote) to gimmicky means for pressing a button. Sure, for games like Wario Ware motion control is a godsend. But for nearly anything else, "swing the remote" = "sword button".
I'm an avid movie fan, and the new wave of 3D (glasses 3D) films were fun at first. But then the gimmick wore off, and I realized that it degraded visual quality, made things blurry and hard to focus on, and hurt my eyes.
As a huge game fan, the Wiimote is little more than a 3D flick to me. Sure, 3D can make a movie better in a rare example, but usually it's just to distract from a poor product.
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Yeah, like I said. It's a personal preference. I've played games on the Wii that did it really well, decent, and horribly. Thank god I've only come across one or two horribles.
Part of it is how the developers implement control (there are times I think 'why on earth did they design it like this X way would have been so much better'). Twilight Princess was kinda like that at times. Especially with the swinging of swords. Though if I remember correctly in the game you could either swing the sword or press A. It kinda feels that sometimes the developer see motion controls as a way to make games easier to access for those who didn't play videogames due to the controller. And you can tell when that happens because they'll have idiotic motions for things that really should be dedicated towards a button.
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"swing the remote" = "sword button".
That's not because the controller is broken. Your game developper is. They think in button based gameplay and map wiggles and waggles to button presses.
But it's not the only way. They just ehm .. don't fucking get it.
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What is wrong with a game being cheaper to produce? That is a good thing, not a bad thing. And Nintendo has far more consoles out there than the PS3 and 360 combined, so the games will reach a much broader market. It is also the easiest platform to develop for.
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I've covered all of this in my other replies, so if you're interested in reading them, they lie below us.
But one point you brought up that none of the other guys did is that the Wii has a much broader audience. I don't think this is due to their other consoles, but more so because the console has grabbed not only seasoned gamers, but also new gamers. It has people who view games are an art form, and grandmothers who like batting the virtual tennis ball around.
So it is much broader...however, if I'm going to make a game, it's going to be for the people who can fully appreciate my work. These are people with experience with the medium...an analogy would be me wanting someone to taste my fine wine who has years of experience of wine tasting. Sure, a wine newbie could sip it, but his experience is much less important to me than the hardcore wine taster.
So I wouldn't really care about the additional audience the Wii provides; the one that the 360 and PS3 lacks. That, combined with my other points below, makes me wonder why any company who wants to fully express their game making ability and has the finances to afford a 360 or PS3 game, would choose the Wii as their platform.
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As you said yourself, the Wii has many seasoned gamers along with the casuals. Probably just as many in total volume as those other consoles.
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It's not just about making money, it's about being ABLE to make the kind of game you want BECAUSE the game costs less money.
Because gaming costs are so high, publishers are less inclined to try something unique (hence the endless influx of 1st person shooters) and if you want to try something different, you must jump through a lot more hoops.
Or you can just cel-shade the game and go to Nintendo so you can do what you really want.
The wii-motion plus should address the problems with the Wii controller and perhaps make it the BETTER controller it was always supposed to be. Based on impressions from IGN, the newest golf and tennis games utilizing it are already the best playing games in their genres.
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This is all true - games on the Wii are cheaper to make, and thus these companies who can't afford to make games on the 360 or PS3 are able to develop for the Wii.
But I'm talking about the companies that can afford to make games for the other two consoles. These developers choose to make games for the Wii because they are cheaper to produce just to make more money. Just like many movie studios, they look at games purely as a product to increase their profits, not as an artistic expression. It's not out of necessity for these companies.
But if you're in a financial position to develop for the 360 and PS3, and are looking exclusively to make a great game, I don't see why you would choose the Wii over the competition. These two consoles give you many more resources, a much wider palette to translate your vision. We're talking buying a full set of professional oils paints over the cheapy Wal-Mart fingerpaint 6 color set.
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I think the group you're talking about is pretty small. How many quality developers with a ton of money consciously choose to eschew the PS3 and 360 for money? Most of the exclusive Wii titles from big houses tend to be oddball titles (e.g., the resident evil on-rails series, the castlevania fighting game, etc.) so it's not like we're talking about guaranteed sellers.
So in order for these game makers to get their ideas across, they have to tell the publishers they work for that they'll make it on the Wii.
You're also limiting the palette to JUST graphics and sound (what about the most important thing of all, gameplay?). If somebody actually WANTS to use the Wii-mote, then the 360 and PS3 simply won't cut it. And yes, there are games that work better with the wii-mote and this will become even more apparent with wii-motion plus.
To be perfectly honest, a good cel-shaded game on the Wii looks just fine to me... to this day, Wind Waker immerses me in its visual world more than any other game including the realistic stuff put out by Sony and MS (and this stuff is starting to head down Uncanny Valley for me personally)
Obviously, I'd like the wii to have more power, but I don't think it's fair to say the other two systems necessarily have a wider palette... they just have some options the Wii doesn't and likewise, the Wii has some options that they don't have.
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is it bad that I instantly recognized Miranda Kerr's ass at :28?
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What do you mean by "bad"?
(Edit: No.)
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Rewatched: Confirmed match, sir.
Oh, Miranda.
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So wait has anyone else actually played this?
I just bought it yesterday on a whim and was blown away by the violence and spectacle in the first minutes of actual gameplay. It's kind of crazy to see this level of stuff [read:bloody decapitation] in a game that is based off the old tradition of Double Dragon and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Arcade, but it is essentially the same game with more bloody. Basically you're a badass with a chainsaw on your metal arm and you have to kill people to save humanity from this evil or whatever the fuck ever, it doesn't matter that much. Yahtzee is right on with the gameplay getting old quickly and there not being much going on after awhile, but it's still pretty fun overall.
My biggest complaint is there's no real challenge except for bosses and the occasional giant baddie, but then again I've only played the easy mode. I heard the hard modes are impossible, or at least an actual challenge, can anyone agree?
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As an example, on hard mode, when those mini-bosses appear, instead of just standing around they actually attack - and usually do 2/3rd damage to your life bar.
It's very challenging, yes.
The funny thing about this review is that all beat 'em ups were/are repetitive. Like almost all platformers require jumping. And almost all JRPGs require grinding.
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That doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't an issue that could potentially be addressed!
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I'm not sure what the issue is that needs to be addressed. Sega and Platinum Games went out and decided to make an arcade brawler, and by all accounts did a very good job of it.
As a general rule, the beat 'em up genre isn't all that popular. Games that have improved on the formula (God of War, Devil May Cry) have created a genre on their own.
Madworld is more attuned to Final Fight than it is to God of War. I believe that was the point.
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I played the first level twice. It locked up on the first boss both times. So that was my experience. It was fun, great looking, funny, and all that good stuff, though I don't really care that I can't get past the first boss, because it does seem like it'd get repetitive pretty fast.
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I had the same problem, a lock-up on the first boss. After a googling a bit I only found more people with the same problem, not a solution. I restarted the level and beat it without problems.
The day after my Wii booted into a message stating something about a corructed configfile. Rebooted the Wii, no problems since.
Weird...
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A bit of the old ultraviolence...
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The old in-out-in-out...
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Did Nintendo rape his family or something? He's giving more irrational hatred toward the Wii every week.
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It helps to balance out all of the irrational hype.
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irrational hatred
I think that's all part of the fun.
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irrational hatred toward the Wii
I don't know if such a thing exists.
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Well Yahtzee sold me on mad world, I tend to like everything he hates such as: squeals, the Wii, and Zelda Phantom Hourglass to name a few.
I mean he's funny, I just don't take him as a serious game critic. Maybe it's because he's never played Starcraft.
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It's not that, you just have to look for the part where he tentatively agrees that it's fun, no matter what else he says.
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I just don't take him as a serious game critic. Maybe it's because he's never played Starcraft.
I just don't take him as a serious game critic. Maybe it's because he has different opinions than I do. FTFY.
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Well, the fact that his popularity hinges on his ability to find the worst in a game and make it sound like a pile of shit is often mistaken for him not liking a game.
The point he makes quite often (although usually outside of ZP) is that he tries to avoid saying games are good/bad/worth it/etc in favor of just having a laugh at the game's expense.
I find myself renting or borrowing a lot of the titles he reviews just to see for myself how they are and while many of things he mentions are blown way out of proportion it's still hilarious to take a step back and think "Yeah, that's kinda fucked up."
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I think this may be the first time he didn't complain about the camera angle.
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Pretty accurate review.
I like the game. It's not amazing, but it's got some creative moments, some dialog that was genuinely amusing and it is fun to play.
All the negative stuff he said about it is true, but I repeat, it is fun to play.
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I completely agree. I don't understand why people were excited for this game. Might be fun for a bit, but ultimately a repetitive, so-so game.
What I find odd is that Yahtzee seems to enjoy this "mature" shit when it's slightly less over the top, and on another platform. Idiot.
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I don't know, he kind of admitted that he doesn't mind the "mature" stuff. He just doesn't see the point in making a game like that for the Wii, and making it so damn repetitive.
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I don't know why, but the clip won't play here. I've seen the commercial 15+ times now, but no review.
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They'll keep showing the commercial until you buy something. It's a new marketing campaign.
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I had that problem so I had to open it in Safari. shrug Safari allows me to download the videos, too, so whatever.
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is it me or is yahtzee getting less and less funny and starting to sound kinda like a tool being whiney because he think everyone likes him in hate mode?
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Is it me or is this comment, or a variation of it, in every yahtzee comment section?
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Good call
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Well, i think this particular review wasn't that great.
Overall i disagree, though.
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Out of curiosity, is there a chance that Yahtzee's hasn't calibrated his wiimote correctly, if at all? I can agree with some of his points for Mad World (though I still found it supremely fun) but I had no problem with the controls at all.
And I think he kind of went waaaay off base there when he said that people were all over Mad World because it was 'mature'. I know I bought it cause it looked interesting not because it had blood.
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This game is presumably unrelated to the Tears for Fears song of pretentious Gears of War trailer fame.
Don't forget pretentious ending of Donnie Darko fame.
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I wish Yahtzee still used random song clips for the intro and extro. He had a couple obvious choices he could have used for this one...
The generi-metal song he uses now is getting old.
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When he switched, he had explained it was for copyright reasons. He has no choice in the matter.
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To quote Yahtzee,
Jesus Christ, you could at least mix it up a bit
Maybe we're due for a new theme song?
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He has enough choice in the matter to choose something that isn't compressed to hell and almost unlistenable after appearing something like 50 times in the last 20 videos. There's plenty of CC-licensed music he's free to help himself to.
And don't get me started on that seizure-inducing intro video that doesn't fit the series in the least.
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The thing is, the clips he used were always less than 15 seconds, so that means that they are covered by Fair Use, and therefore not violating copyright law. I think what happened was that a law firm hired by a record company sent The Escapist a very scary cease and desist letter that they thought was actually backed up by law (it wasn't), and they decided to stop.
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The law in the US, or the law in Australia? And let's not forget how much the Aussie government is pandering to lobby groups on piracy and privacy at the moment either.
Speaking of, is Yahtzee liable or is The Escapist should anything about his music get filled?
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Nice Jabberwocky reference.
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So, what is the name of the man Yahtzee uses to personify "boring" or "average"? I've asked before, and I've searched online, but no one seems to know the answer. Reddit?
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[deleted]
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I was expecting him to sing this song for some odd reason.
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It's zero punctuation, but there's punctuation in the title. hahaha, im so original.
Oh, is it Wednesday already?
Wednesday shall be the day, and the day shall be Wednesday. Thursday shall not be the day, neither be it Tuesday, unless thou art proceeding to Wednesday. Friday is right out.
Monday... Tuesday... Friday!
Wednesday, sir.
Wednesday!
Once Wednesday has been reached, then lob'est thy Yahtzee towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shalt snuff it.
Oh, is it time to repeat the same two comments from every week?
Yes, yes it is.
And don't you dare not like it!
Thursday in Australia!
Wednesday? Crap I need to go check out XKCD, shame nobody has posted THAT.
sigh
You mean: "Is it only wednesday ?!"
And it comes after Tuesday!
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Except the Escapist is from the US, and according to their time it's published on Wednesday.
Where Yahtzee resides is mostly irrelevant, as it's not like he's producing this live. For all we know he could have done this video last month.
Summary: some places it's Wednesday. Some places it's Thursday. No need to get bent out of shape because someone refers to it as being whatever day it is where they live.
So he should say, "Oh, is it GMT +10 already?"
It's hard to say without his valuable effort, but it looks like we're nearing another popularity nadir. Of course if jdfong takes a few weeks off, his karma will bounce right back up.
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I wonder what'll happen when you run out of letters.
I think his comment is the countdown to armageddon. When he runs out of letters, the stars will align and Cthulhu will rise!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
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I'm saving up for a sex change operation so I can have your babies.